Feeling a little scared... (long story, numbered questions at the end)

I hang around the forums quite a bit when I'm not online. I really enjoy this game. It's a nice addition to the Final Fantasy franchise, and I can play with friends. I really want to see this game succeed.

Lately, though, I've taken in several different points of view. Most of these being disappointed or angry. As someone that tends to adopt emotions from others I've become nervous and scared for my friends and myself, as well as the future of this game.

I played Final Fantasy XI at the request of a friend shortly before this game relaunched as ARR. Naturally my friend hopped over and left me to my own adventures in XI. And one thing I noticed, as I progressed through each of the main cities' rank missions and took on as much of the game solo as I could, was this sinking feeling. It was like it was my fault, as a new player, for XI turning into what it is. Every adjustment, nerf, unpopular decision from the dev team was my fault. I'm just minding my own business, enjoying XI as well as I can, but the fact that I got my AF gear or cleared my rank 5 mission or anything I did was a result of the dev team being overly generous and that I should've been around years ago.

I finally started playing this game some around patch 2.1 (or 2.2, more likely, Mythology was uncapped IIRC), starting out as an ACN and enjoying the music and the scenery and the gameplay for what it is. I find myself enjoying the story and the lore, and wanting to experience as much as possible. I get to level 50 and my friends at endgame are eager to help me along with the relic quest. And overall as I got to catching up with each patch I was enjoying the newest story additions and the throwbacks to previous FF titles. And of course there was Coil, which was a blast to challenge, even though T2 enrage was a thing and T5 took more than a few PF groups to clear.

Things diverged for my friends and I after that. They got into raiding more seriously, and I'd only got experience Second Coil through T7 post-nerfs while they moved on to Final Coil as their own group. Ok, cool, I'll just craft, gather, do other things. And I enjoyed that, capping out all my levels just before HW landed.

Heavensward gets here and all the hype was real. Flying, new zones, new jobs. Everything was pretty cool. Except AST, but devs were working on improving it anyway. Again my friends greeted me at endgame as a level 60 SMN, but kinda left me at the door for Savage Alex. But hey, they helped me unsync clear my Coil stuff!

3.2 hits, and finally, I'm actually caught up, I feel like. So my friends and I start gearing through the weekly grind in Midas, and suddenly I realize I'm the 9th wheel here. Left again at the gate to Containment Bay S1T7 Extreme, while I watched on my friend's TV as they struggled to master the mechanics again and again. I get rebuffed when I ask to try, saying I'd better not mess up and I'd have to get parsed.

Ok, so no more stepping on toes, back to crafting and gathering. A bit less enjoyable this time (curse you Holy Water-doused items and Hallowed Water-doused items!), but I figure I'm doing something. Meanwhile I figure since I'm on my own, that I see what's up on the forums in between everything. And... well, that sinking feeling way back from XI has come back.

Worried as I am, I decide to get some other friends into XIV and they love it. Even when that long 2.x patch story grind almost got them, Heavensward excited them. But as this goes on, I'm keeping tabs here, and suddenly seeing where that feeling is coming from. Threads going on about how the dev team is making decisions with more generosity towards the players struggling with lower level content. And how it's the players' fault. Toxicity, entitlement, snowflake, white knight... all kinds of derogatory terms being thrown around.

In the meantime, I'm left out of the challenging content I want to try (Savage Alex, Seph EX, Thordan) because one group of friends doesn't want me to stress out and get performance anxiety, and now I'm worrying about my other friends who are progressing through Heavensward patches with DF parties ranging from rude to incompetent, with some helpful saviors sprinkled in. I've even tried to go over rotations with them, run content with them as "kick protection", and help them gear as best as I know.

However, I'm even worried about running roulettes by myself. I try my hardest no matter what role I choose, but I know I'm limited by the extent of familiarity. With all the long story out of the way:

1. Is it bad to be flexible? I see recommendations in all roles that questionably try to force the other two to "play right". Tank not using cooldowns right? DPS not dodging? Stop healing! Heals too lazy to dps? Screw tank cooldowns! Step in all the AoEs! Tanks/heals not helping with mechanics? Too bad, I'mma just keep plowing through with my burst rotation!

To me... I'm not a vindictive person or someone that tries to start conflict. I just do what I do and try to do it my best. Is it really that bad if I drop a Ruin III out of my Dreadwyrm Trance to push moogles out of the reviving circles? Is it that bad that even though the tank is going full dps mode no tank stance while I'm struggling to keep him stable that I pop every possible form of mitigation I have as heals to keep him going, at the expense of any Cleric Stance time? Am I being flexible or "enabling bad play", as some would say?

2. To what degree can I expect my gearing friends to get kicked or jeered at as they gear up? While I've gotten them to start piecing together esoterics gear, it's very lopsided since they're replacing the HQ lvl 58 story pieces.

3. My friends are eager about trying to raid, but at the same time they've got frustrated at the likes of Titan and even the Ballistic Missile from Harmachis in ARF has been a point of frustration (who covers who again? No, last time I stood in it I wiped us! Ok, I give up, I'm not doing anything!). So... how do I go about introducing them to raids? Coil? Gordias? Midas?

4. Finally... why do arguably bad developer decisions get blamed on the playerbase? I understand it's bad form to attack the developer himself, but it's not bad to question his decisions. But I see less of that and more attacks against the players, which is what I felt in XI as a new player in the later years of the game.

1 flexibility is good, bad players will always be bad

2 not much, there are bad apples here and there and you may get less than optimal runs but most should be pretty silent and dramaless

3 ask them if they wanna try the hardest content. it seems to me they aren't all into the hard stuff so i don't know if they actually would like it but you never know the game seems harder at first when you don't have much experience on your job or overall mechanics in the game.

4 everyones to blame, it's easy to point fingers, but impossible to make everyone happy.

My first suggestion would actually be: Step away from the forum xD I would guess you gonna find a lot more... "extreme" people in here than in the game itself - dont let that stress you to much!
Now to go over your stuff one by one...

1) No, it is not bad to be flexible. As long as you generally know your job and perform well, everyone can keep their mouth shut. By "perform well", I mean: dont be an ice mage or a bard without roulette etc. But you do sound as if you have a good understanding of your job, you just need a little bit more confidence in that ;) I know that I used to be the same 2 years ago (while even maining a tank...) but today I shrug that stuff off because I know that I performed to the best of my abilities and had a very good reason for the choices I made. You're worrying a little to much here - those stuff people are complaining about is mostly "Here is a person on level 60, not understanding their duties"; its not "Here is a person, doing mechanics and sacrficing a bit of dps because of that". (IF they however are complaining about that... pity them... they deserve that for being someone who needs to point out stuff like that in a dungeon... often enough those people arent that great themself but need to feel that little bit of "power")
One general advice I would have here: Try to be nice! If I havent played a job in a while, I'll let my party know - normally with something like "Hey, I havent touched this job for a few months, so I might be a bit rusty, but gonna give it my best!"

2) You shouldnt not expect that at all - if they get kicked because of that: Please, report it! I would lie if I told you that I'm "happy" to see someone who is undergeared in a dungeon, but we've all been new at somepoint! Again, I would try to be "vocal" about it, if they have bonus tell your party that thats some consolation etc. Generally: It shouldnt be to bad. (However: I would advice them to upgrade the more important parts, as in the weapon for dps for example first. Seeing a dps with a low level weapon but almost full eso-jewls is always a bit "mmh..." Farming esos in the older dungeons first, before going into the new ones while barely hitting the ilvl could be a good idea too^^)

3) Make it fun! If they got frustrated by those mechanics, put yourself into an atmosphere thats more relaxed and where it is clear that you're all there to have fun! Make that the main goal first.
Rules for that: Bring no one who is in a bad mood or has a bad attitude and only wants a fast kill. If you can: get everyone together on a voice chat, so you can laugh about silly stuff that happens.
I would also recommend to begin with Coil - you can try it synched first but if you dont make it, go in unsyched again, to get that scusses (I know, thats cheating a bit)... Show them that those raids can be fun and are nothing they have to be afraid of!

And advice I have for you btw: Get rid of those elitist friends - parsing a friend for Thordan EX? Telling him, when hes new not to fuck up? Man, thats aweful and really sucks... I was actually checking on which server you were because I would have loved to offer you some help with that kind of stuff. Sorry to say it like this, but those kind of toxic, elitist people seem to have ruined the fun (along with your self-confidence) quite a bit...

4) I dont feel like everything gets blamed on the playerbase here. Yet there are some things the devs had to do because of the way people are playing/enjoying this game. Content is to "hard"? Bäm, have a nerf! Sometimes the devs think of really cool, difficult stuff outside of the EX-primals and savage modes. But the average casual player cant handle that or dont want to put the effort into it and is rather whining about how everything is impossible to clear... so... because of that stuff gets easier and easier and thats hurting everyone who would love to have a challenge. People are also burning through content just after the new patch came out - since that content has to last for a while though, it gets grindey and even more grindey, to keep everyone playing and busy with the limited ressources they have. Specially here that grind-fest often gets blamed on the devs though! Their answer "we dont have enough staff" might be true but its hard to understand how they cant hire more people if they're making a fortune with this game (...and having the time to put items into the mog-station for a price thats making me sick)

Honestly: You seem to have run into some very, very bad people - dont let that kill your fun! Be confident in yourself! Grab your SMN and try Stone, Sky, Sea for some of the EX-Primals, to see if you have the dps to beat them! (note: that doesnt mean that you will beat them) If you can do that: great, why worry about something simple and easy like a dungeon?! If you cant: dont worry, you can improve, so go for it!
Stay away from people that make this game un-fun to you, by leaving you out and insulting you - look for like minded people, who prefer fun about BiS and who care a little more about achieving something like a Thordan EX kill together than about killing him...

Best of luck and have an awesome time in Eorzea! ;D

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Originally Posted by Ninster

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I read your post, again and again and again and I have one question to ask

What is that you truely seek to know/understand with your post ?

You go round in circle and nothing of what you asked makes sense, as I am sure you already know the answers, since you play since so long.

So, I Wonder, maybe telling us straight what is that bugs or you seek might help us all to give you a more appropriate answer...

Just me though

Things get relaxed over time, that's not your fault. I would suggest looking for new friends to play with.

Your "friends" sound like total jerks. Your new friends sound like they wouldn't enjoy extreme primals/savage raids.. and that's ok. The point of now having story mode, and of the 24 mans, is providing raid content (more mechanics than dungeons) that is extremely forgivable. Having fun is important.. so I'd recommend ignoring the people complaining about filthy casuals and running the content you find entertaining!

Your're not wrong about the vitriol on these forums. At times I wonder if some people literally do nothing but post about how terrible everything is (some, I'm pretty sure, actually do), but there are also quite a few truly knowledgeable about generous posters, as well. Take the vitriol with a grain of salt since there is often a small bit of truth in it, but don't treat every criticism as a personal attack. That's my two cents on that topic. As for your questions:


1) I would gladly take a safe, flexible player over anyone else in my party. It doesn't matter how much you've memorized the perfect rotation or fight if you can't adapt when a mistake happens. Things go wrong, and sometimes it's no one's fault in particular. That said, I'm not encouraging players to not know their class (please, BLMs, use more than Blizz 1 and Fire 1!) but rather encouraging people to not bottleneck themselves into one playstyle of having the perfect rotation 100% of the time and damn everything else. No class can do anything if they're dead, after all.

2) It depends. There are people who won't take less than perfection and others who won't care so long as you have a general understanding and are adequately geared, and gearing to i200 or i210 isn't too difficult anyway. Beyond that, if your friends play well (not perfectly, mind you) then most people won't even say anything about their gear. Just let them know that if they hop into EX content, check the minimum item level requirement in the duty finder for it. I'd suggest they try to get a few levels higher than the minimum unless they feel very confident in their abilities. And don't join a farm group if they're new--that never ends well for anyone.

3) Practice, practice, practice! There's no real way to introduce them to higher level content without, well, dropping them in. This game has a lot of entry level content and high level content, but is sorely lacking in mid level content. I'd have them try Void Ark or Bismark EX if they want to experience 24-man raids and EX Primals in HW, if only because they're more populated. After those, try out Gordias and Midas normal. Keep them away from Midas Savage unless they really want to get their feet wet.

4) Well, you kinda said it youself: "arguably bad developer decisions". I've heard people blame other players and others call for Yoshi-P's job. Frankly, they're both wrong, but that's not quite the point. We tend to blame the playerbase because the developers react directly to how we're playing the content they give us. For example, Midas Savage clear rates are VERY low compared to their expectations. So they're making the Creator Savage easier on us in 3.4. However, the higher difficulty of Alexander Savage was, itself, a response to people saying Coil was too easy!

Whether we like it or not, the developers want as many people as possible to experience as much content as possible in this game. Yes, they'll make some difficult fights, and yes they'll also nerf the hell out of earlier content, but that's all to help people experience the game. Whether you agree with that or not is up to you--far be it for me to judge--but regardless it comes down to if you want a game where only the top 25% play, or one where everyone can have a shot.

I hope I was at least somewhat coherent with my answers (and legible! Typing this on a phone is ridiculous, haha!). Just keep helping your friends out and don't let them be afraid to try new things. I had a few people in my FC be terrified of Coil and EX Primals back in 2.0, and now they do nothing but bird farms for the HW EX Primals, haha!

Step away from the forum. If everyone were on the forums, new players would be extremely discouraged to play the game due to all the complaints

My solution? Grab your friends currently leveling up and help them up to your level so you can do hard content with them. Everyone gets stressed when they start doing higher level content, but I believe with some training on things like common raid mechanics, the tells used for most of them (like the inward-pointing arrows for stack mechanics), and other such stuff, they should be capable of getting through it if they want to.

First, you need to understand that this forum represents a very small, and very vocal, minority of players. It's essentially a petri dish, where quite often unpopular or incorrect opinions can fester. The game as a whole, has a much wider and broad spectrum of players, opinions and playstyles

To your questions, no flexibility is not bad. There are certainly people who have a very narrow definition of what their class should do, what other classes should do, what's optimum and what's bad. This does not mean that the whole player population holds the same views. You want to push that Moggle out with a Ruin III, go to town. I doubt 99% of the players that you meet in game will even notice.

Most people view kicking players as a last resort. Despite the horror stories that you might hear here, this does not happen in the majority of dungeon runs. You will encounter all kinds of players, helpful, funny, slightly-crazy, or (the most common) completely silent. You will find people that help you out and offer suggestions, far more often then the ragers. Just as there are all kinds of people & personalities in the world, there are all kinds of players in the world. Most of the time, you will get the player's who say "hi" at the start, "GG" at the end and just kill the mobs in between that. 99% of people will not care about gear, or play - unless it's something really off the wall. Even then, they will probably offer a suggestion politely than raging. Or they will just stay silent and keep on keeping on with their play.

In terms of getting up your friends up to and into raiding, try giving some of the EX primals a shot. Bismark & Ravana have mechanics that can't be ignored, but since we overgear them so much, it's essentially like playing in the shallow end of the pool. Even Alexander Midas would be a good introduction, since it's a 8 man duty that you shouldn't be able to AFK in (compared to the 24 man raids). Additionally, they are fun fights with cool mechanics. Also know that raiding isn't for everyone, and quite frankly, isn't the be-all & end-all of the game. It's there for those that want that content and who like it, but if you enjoy doing other things, then awesome. Fun is the superior stat in the game, so whatever you are doing, it's got to be fun. Fun can come from all content, lowly guildheists, achievement chasing, crafting, gathering, leveling, dungeons, you name it. Raiding also doesn't have to be something that you get into right as you hit 60. If this is their first MMO, or if they are still building up their skills, comfort level and awareness, then it can be something for the future.

Outside of your questions and care and concern for your friends, I also get the sense of a lot of anxiety from you. You obviously care about your friends and want them to have a good time. But you have the desire to do more challenging content, but are nervous. You are not alone. Even people who are exceptional players, who have some impressive accomplishments under your belt feel this way from time to time. And in moderation, it can be a good feeling, because it makes you always bring your A-game, and look for ways to improve yourself. That's a great skill to have. However, if you let it get the best of you, then it will. And that kind of fear and anxiety can hold you back. This is just a video game. The worst thing that can happen is that you wipe. And they you have the ability to start over again and improve. There's an old, cliche saying that goes: Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. Meaning that if you think you aren't good enough to do that content, then you're sabotaging yourself. If you think you can, and try it out, then what do you really have to loose? Some random person on the internet might develop an opinion of you for a second and then move onto other content and forget all about you in a minute?

The limitation is that a full party can only be 8 people. And if seems that you have a good group of friends who have their solid 8 party on. And it's hard to be in the 9th spot, looking in. From their gameplay, they need that team of 8 to be strong, but sure, it sucks for you. Getting new friends into the game is great, and maybe they don't have the same drive. But that doesn't mean that you can't do the things you want to do. There's a server and data center full of people out there that can (and do!) want to play with you. Ask a trusted raiding friend what you can do to improve, watch guides and study your rotation, practice on the striking dummy, and put yourself out there. I know it's super scary to do that, but this community is legitimately great, let it surprise you, let it help you. There are lots of other players in the same boat as you. They want to clear content and try new things out. The nature of raiding makes it feel exclusive, and it's a hard scene to break into at times. But there are so many other people who want to and want to try. Meet people on your server outside your FC. Trust me, there's lots of players who want to and do help and will take hours out of their time to teach someone fights or help them improve.

tl;dr - This forum is a small silver of players and doesn't represent everyone. Be brave and have fun, in whatever method that looks like for you!