Does this really even make sense anymore, your telling me three "civilized nations" in an ALLIANCE can't part three contested territories, one which is an island (limsa), one that borders uldah, and one that borders gridania. Pls SE now is a chance to break free of gc pvp lore.
Civilized Conflict
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08-01-2016, 05:51 AMMiraKershawCivilized Conflict
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08-01-2016, 05:54 AMAstrid_Stormborn
Admittedly you probably already know, but isn't the argument about the territories more about ownership of the Allagan ruins and relics contained in the areas in question?
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08-01-2016, 05:55 AMNaria
Uh this kinda seems like it belongs more in the PVP or general forum since you seem to be complaining about lore effecting game play, instead of discussing it.
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08-01-2016, 05:58 AMMiraKershaw
I mean your telling me each nation is greedy enough to want all the relics in all areas, so they can just share the information they get with their allies? Lol
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08-01-2016, 06:03 AMWhiteArchmage
As said above, the conflict isn't so much about the TERRITORY but the RELICS in there. Any argument about how to properly handle the artifacts between the three nations would devolve into "no, MY country is best equipped to study these allagan artifacts" and no one really dies in the first place so it's also about keeping the GCs sharp in the case of an invasion. The Alliance isn't particularily expansionist and an army that isn't kept well trained regularily starts to go rusty, and I don't think anyone wants that in the case of the next garlean invasion.
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08-01-2016, 06:06 AMNariaWell they could, but then frontlines wouldn't exist. They would have to completely redo the backstory for ally vs ally PVP if the Alliance hashed things out diplomatically. It would end up being more like a large scale Wolves' Den, probably in a manufactured arena/zone as well. If the frontlines areas are no longer being contested they could be put to much better use (like actually researching Allag). Since GC restrictions seem to be a big complaint for pvp maybe they will do something like that going forward for new zones, however, I don't think they will ever change how the current PVP zones work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraKershaw
. . . but hey, I could be wrong.
Edit:
Historically the the City states haven't ever been very friendly to each other. They are capable of acting as a unit for the united good, particularly when they have a common enemy like Garlemald or Ala Mhigo. Reluctantly. -
08-01-2016, 06:18 AMMiraKershawPerhaps but an army that is exhausted and using lots of supplies for a "friendly fight", we use airships to get to all these locations using fuel and manpower there, while the garleans are literally on our doorstep, in some cases inside our land, why would the nations want to send their BEST soldiers to fight some conflict that would be solved diplomatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage
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08-01-2016, 07:03 AMVargasVermillionGood point, if they really wanted to hone their skills they would be pushing those castrums off of eorzean soil.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraKershaw
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08-01-2016, 10:57 AMNalienWhich would be a good thing... SE wasted two years developing Frontlines for no well explained reason... Don't take that as PvP hate either, I like PvP in this game, but Frontlines has been handled terribly and at this point it's just wasted resources... They could salvage it, but I don't even want them to at this point... Frontlines and Wolves Den are two vastly different games, and I'd much rather they focus on Wolves Den at this point... They probably have another Frontlines map set up for 4.0 though, then we'll have 4/5 maps that are dead instead of the current 3/4... It utterly blows my mind that they continue to waste development resources on Frontlines...Quote:
Originally Posted by Naria
In theory, I should love Frontlines, but SE has utterly failed to create factions in this game... The Grand Companies could be removed from the game with very little impact and just replaced with the Alliance, compare that to Final Fantasy XI, where it would be virtually impossible to remove its three factions... The cities themselves are distinct enough, but the factions were just seemingly tacked on in 1.x because "MMOs have to have factions!", and SE put no more effort into them than ticking factions off the to-do list... Hopefully 3.4 fixes that, given we're getting new Grand Company ranks/gear/stuff/etc., but I wont hold my breath... They've failed to implement factions effectively in this game so far, and as a result their faction PvP is an utter mess... That the lore behind faction PvP is so shifty is just icing on this particularly disappointing cake...
It's kind of sad really, because as with most things (Diadeeeeeeeeeeeem), I can see potential in it... Rework Frontlines so each mode (Secure/Slaughter/Seize/Shatter) can be played on each map (Borderland Ruins/Seal Rock/Fields of Glory)... Slip in Feasts Leaderboard system and make it ranked, with each Grand Company having its own Leaderboard for rewards, on top of the Grand Companies themselves being ranked against each other for additional rewards... Then you've got a system where the Grand Companies actually matter to the gameplay, rather than just being an irritating restriction... The lore behind the conflicts is still kinda dumb, but they can at least make the gameplay work... Can't retcon the lore at this point, but if I was going to, I'd change "We're fighting over a McGuffin!" to "Cid reprogrammed some Allagan sh*t for Alliance training exercises!".
As far as the lore goes, I think that's kinda the problem... The Eorzean Alliance is already busy dealing with the Garleans and Beast Tribes, that's why we're the ones fighting in Frontlines, they simply don't have the manpower to secure the regions and Adventurers aren't they type to apply for guard duty... Thus war games... I imagine it works as a fairly wonderful deterrent against anyone interesting in the Allagan McGuffins we're supposedly fighting for, 72 Warriors of Light in one place? You'd be mad to try and make a move on those territories... I kinda wish they'd incorporate that kind of element into the games themselves... Right now we just have the odd Allagan Drone (or had, since Secure/Slaughter are dead), would make more sense to have Garleans swoop in as a 4th faction for us to unite against for additional points... Then the lore makes a bit more sense; We're not just fighting over the resources, we're turning the area into a warzone to keep it safe from the likes of Garlemald...Quote:
Originally Posted by VargasVermillion
I... Have no idea why I'm giving SE ideas for a new Frontlines map... Please don't make that SE, either the next Frontlines update makes Secure/Slaughter/Seize relevant again, or there is no next Frontlines update... Please don't add Skrimish, only to throw Shatter in the same cold ditch Secure/Slaughter/Seize are rotting in... -
08-01-2016, 12:49 PMTheodric
It makes a lot more sense when you consider that if it weren't for Garlemald and Primals Eorzea would likely be at war with itself. Much like it has been throughout a lot of it's known history. That the Grand Companies would bicker over powerful Allagan relics doesn't at all surprise me. It fits. That isn't to say that PvP hasn't been handled poorly where the lore is concerned but still.