I believe shields in this game need to be rebalanced, in 2.0 they were strong, giving PLD an edge as MT, but due to the adjustments in 3.0 a shield is basically a glorified parry and offers no real advantage, which defeats the point of it even existing. So here is my suggestion to rebalance shields.
1. Remove the block strength and block rate stat:
These stats do nothing anymore other than nerf the strength of an underlevelled shield. Instead I believe shields should have a static rate and strength based on type.
e.g. Buckler = 40% rate and 20% strength, Kite = 30% rate and 30% strength, Tower = 20% rate and 40% strength.
This simplifies block mechanics based on the type and not the level of the shield. Instead the level of the shield will only give extra stats like all other gear in the game.
2. Add physical defence to shields:
So instead of leaving the space where block strength and rate used to be empty, put some extra physical defence on shields and add the shield type (buckler/kite/tower) in that space. Having extra physical defence will help secure the idea that PLD is the physical tank. Conversely adding some magic defence to great swords to secure DRK as the magic tank.
3. Massively increase the enmity generation of shield swipe:
PLD has the worst enmity of all 3 tanks as it has the lowest damage and it's enmity combo is not it's highest damage combo, so while DRK and WAR can comfortably hold hate out of their tank stance a PLD is far more likely to struggle.
Shield swipe is only ever going to be used when the PLD is getting hit, so likely only when the PLD is tanking. I think shield swipe should generate a huge amount of enmity, enough to secure the PLD hate for a long time. I'm talking a large enmity spike, a sword oath shield swipe should generate as much enmity as a shield oath Rage of Halone.
This will help PLD tank in sword oath easily to make up for it's lower damage, while the power of the shield will allow it to tank in sword oath with less risk. Making PLD a stronger MT without taking away from it being weaker than the other tanks and emphasising it's defensiveness only against physical mobs as magical ones won't proc shield swipe and can't be blocked.
4. Adjust blocking and casting:
PLD is the only tank that has long cast times and the only tank with a shield, so these cast times should synergise with shield use.
You should be able to block and parry while casting, but not only that, if you block or parry while casting it will prevent your spell from getting interrupted.
So for a tank buster a PLD could put up rampart and Shelton then begin pre-casting clemency or stoneskin, the tank buster would hit, the PLD would block with Shelton, their clemency/stoneskin would not be interrupted thanks to the block and then it would go off, healing/protecting them from an attack after the buster.
Currently, if you are casting you cannot block or parry meaning PLD using it's spells takes away from it's defensiveness, which makes the spells less desirable to use as they may get interrupted meaning not only did it do nothing but it reduced your chance to add some extra mitigation.
I think that shields should enhance casting, rather than casting taking away from shields.
Finally a wider variety of shields is needed, I think relic should always be kite, tomes should always be buckler and raids should always be tower. And a variety of each should be available from crafting or other content like Primals, maps, diadem, palace of the dead, etc.
Basically everything at endgame is kite shields and this further reduces the point of having different types of shields available.
Shield overhaul
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07-02-2016, 11:21 PMCabalabobShield overhaul
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07-03-2016, 06:48 PMSarcatica
To be really honest, block can be removed, change skills that have effect on block rate to parry and it won't affect PLD that much. The 3 types of shield thingy is pretty poor of a concept in the first place. RNG defensive stats is IMO worst in games like FFXIV where your active CDs are your bread and butter. The real thing that it is RNG means that there is no telling which one it will have effect on whatever attacks, Sheltron being the bypass but for the most part, you just don't rely on block/parry to do their job to survive.
If SE wants block/parry to be relevant in the real future, those stats need to be significantly better by at least x2~3 the reliability (the strength of block/parry will need to be lowered if that ever happens). Unlike traditional MMOs, tanks in FFXIV not only take auto attacks, they also play around timed tank busters. Also, another point is how the whole stats are working in the game. Parry/block comparitively are about the same value as other traditional MMOs, the break point being parry/block are constantly compared to offensive stats like crit/det that actually offer better returns. -
07-03-2016, 10:34 PMShinzee
Your enmity problem out of tank stance point is completely mood, pld is not even closely the worst for holding enmity in dps stance, the real loser is drk in that category.
Pld even in dps mode will go goring > RA > RA with every ra combo having savage blade in it an enmity skill, if the boss got phy attacks shield swipe procs another enmity skill.
A dark knight is not using a single enmity skill in their dps rota, more dps or not you can not generate more enmity than the savage blades every RA rota and shield swipe procs a pld has while focusing on dps -
07-04-2016, 12:00 AMXenosan
I would appreciate revisiting blocking metrics. Instead of throwing the Strength scaling out like they did in 3.0, they could have refined/fixed it. The problem with it then was that it was purely linear, linear scaling does not work long term, and is why they had to toss it I believe.
block calculation theorycraft (oh my), a scaling ramp up/down of shield effectiveness:
Instead of blocks reducing damage by a fixed percent, it could be a ramp (ie a shield currently blocking a fixed 25% becomes a ramp of 75% to 25%). Where the actual Block percent is determined on that ramp is by the value of the incoming damage. PLD Attack Power determines where the ramp lines up in relation to incoming damage values. Incoming damage values are the range, 1 to infinite, with Attack Power moving the ramp across that range: the more Attack Power, the higher into damage values the ramp moves.
Essentially, the higher the value of the incoming attack, the more Attack Power is required to increase the % mitigated from it's base minimum. Since the literal value of incoming damage and iLVL-based Attack Power are considered in the blocking calculations, this would scale consistently and in equal measure to content (at a rate similar to self healing).
And how this would play out: against a hard hitting attack, the shield may only block for the lowest amount of the ramp, but on a softer attack, like an AA, the shield block will mitigate at a higher percent. Against a low level mob, solo, or unsync the shield block becomes frightfully significant (like the self-healing arsenal becomes for WAR). If the scaling was just right, progression could see improvements of 1-5% for most incoming attacks as they upgrade gear slots in iLVL, but not so against tank busters (since that damage amount would require attack power values far beyond what's capable just to budge the value off the bottom of the ramp).
If the shield blocks 25% of a 20,000 damage attack: 5k damage in one encounter; but then that same Paladin fighting a lvl5 Lady Bug outside Limsa, their block should be nullifying a lot more than 2-3 damage off of a 10 damage attack. It should block like.. ..100% of the attack.
This is the drawback of percent damage reduction. The literal amount of damage nullified is determined by the value of the enemy's attack. Self-healing isn't influenced by the enemy attack's value, it's effective HP buffer can be 50%, 100%, 120%, 200%, or more, far better than Rampart or Grit or whatever can provide. Yes, there are pros and cons to each method, but this is why WAR is working so well now post VIT/STR adjustment. Their mixed bag lets them use whichever is best suited for the moment, and to mix both at once.
Just as WAR double-dips into VIT for both tankiness and self-healing potency, Shield Blocking would now double-dip too: as VIT increases Attack Power, the ramp moves into a higher range of incoming damage values, and as PDEF/MDEF get higher, incoming damage value gets lowered, and the lower the incoming damage value, the more the shield will block for. WHM/BLM do not have the PDEF/MDEF of tanks, they would benefit from this change when fighting lower level mobs, but in 'current' content the damage values would be too high and rarely land within the Block ramp.
We've come a long way since 2.0. This would add that player-iLVL established base-line for blocking, which right now only exist for self-healing.
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tl;dr
Change arbitrary block strength from a fixed percent to a range. Strong incoming hits are blocked at low % amount (the minimum being what shield's already do), but as attacks get weaker relative to our Attack Power, the % mitigated scales up.
Another approach (working in addition) would be to add more proc benefits to the PLD kit. Blocking procs could provide an occasional self heal of 200-400 potency (Aegis Boon), procs could also be used to reset CD/OGCD Weaponskill recasts.
Spirit's Within, make the recast refresh for it as much of a feature for PLD as Bloodletter/Rain of Death is for Bard. In 4.x, if PLD gets multiple AOE abilities, 1 could be a strong oGCD AOE, sharing a recast with Spirit's. Block procs and Goring crit ticks could have a chance to reset that timer (Bard's Bloodletter/Rain of Death).
And finally, the 'best' fix to Paladin's Shield...
...would be to allow us to choose not to use it.
A stance buff like Cleric Stance/Gauss Barrel, it can be toggled on and off. When it's on, block rate/strength is reduced or removed, proc'ing perks changed and/or removed, but DPS/Attack Speed goes up. (I imagine when OT, when tanking magical, and/or during FoF duration being the desired scenarios to have it on, so that should be the objective to design towards).
We'll know shields are 'working' when a PLD would prefer NOT to use this stance while tanking. That'll take a scaling block strength, significant block proc perks, and some resource/recovery sustain on shields to make so. -
07-04-2016, 08:57 AMDestous
I like bock rate. Block strength is dumb though; it's not like we ever get a greatshield when we need it.
I'd like to see tank weapons have a parry rate instead of having parry as a secondary stat.
All that needs to be done with block is to chop out block strength and just set the block amount to always be 30%. -
07-04-2016, 10:49 PMMagiusNecrosSo basically do what they did with parry and make all shields block a fixed amount. Meaning the only shields you'll ever bother with are the ones with highest block rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destous
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07-05-2016, 12:10 AMCanadane
Asking for removed numbers and to have an easily understandable percentage in its place would never happen.
It's just not the SE way! -
07-05-2016, 12:12 AMSekuWell considering that a majority of end game shields are kite shields to begin with....I'm pretty sure we're forced to bother with just one. Also with the introduction of sheltron, towers pretty much dominate if their current tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
If anything shields should block 30% and the only thing that increases is the block %, to make Sheltron fall in line with Dark Mind when it comes to tank buster mitigation for the remainder of this expansion. -- Would provide PLD with a bit more defensive edge for the lack of attack power during large pulls as well. -
07-26-2016, 06:10 AMCabalabobDRK is definitely not the worst off when played properly, a dark arts power slash is great for securing enmity and it has a lot of oGCD damage and high potency attacks to help it keep on top. But I will grant that DRK does start to suffer on enmity in long drawn out fights so it is in a similar boat to PLD. But this by no means makes PLD enmity a moot point. It means the point stands for both DRK and PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinzee
The thing is WAR's highest potency attack and its enmity generating combo are the same combo, so it never has to choose between generating enmity and dealing more damage. PLD and DRK don't have this luxury, PLD has to sacrifice damage to generate enmity and DRK has to sacrifice damage and mp regen to generate enmity. My suggestion for DRK would be to put a dark arts effect on shadow skin to generate enmity for the duration, turning it into a pseudo-grit.
I wouldn't suggest making the same change to Reprisal as I want for shield swipe because: A. Lazy copy paste homogenisation blah blah. B. Parry isn't procced by magic and DRK is setup as the magic tank. While a dark arts ability can be used in any situation C. Reprisal has a longer cooldown than shield swipe and no guaranteed proc button like PLD Shelton. D. I'd like to see more dark arts moves because it's DRKs unique mechanic.