Title. I personally don't see any reason why ammunition has a timer penalty. When a fight hasn't even started you have to constantly spam the skill every 15-29 seconds even at 5 stacks if you want to open with it. Mid-fight, the only times your ammo is going to time out anyway is more or less if there's 15 or more seconds of downtime...but is it such a big deal even in that case? Is MCH ammunition so strong that it needs punishment for not timing correctly on boss downtime? I just find it to be a minor but annoying hindrance to my enjoyment of the job, and can't think of any reason why that penalty exists.
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06-10-2016, 05:49 PMAeliott[MCH Request] Is it possible to have the 30 second ammo time-out removed?
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06-10-2016, 05:55 PMSephstaNekosuki
The 30 second timer isn't even a punishment in a duty, as reload is on 15 secs you can just refresh.
It feels for me that the 30 second timer is only punishment during downtime before pull. It's so frustrating being unable to afk for longer than 29 seconds before having to rush back to the keyboard to reload.
Make it like Aetherflow, please. -
06-10-2016, 09:35 PMCabalabob
I agree that it's illogical, I mean what happens? Does our ammo just fall out of the gun after 30 seconds?
I imagine that the original idea was so you couldn't have 5 ammo then wait for reload to be off CD to have 10 ammo ready, but since they changed quick reload to have a shorter recast than the ammo timer (originally this wasn't the case) this idea is kind of moot. -
06-11-2016, 12:13 AMKelevra
Yeah, bullets shouldn't have an expiration timer. Ammunition should be indefinite. Like Aetherflow stacks.
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06-11-2016, 04:24 AMAeliottYeah, I think this is a more succinct version of what I was getting at :P how the 30s thing is pointless, beyond being an annoyance outside of battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SephstaNekosuki
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06-11-2016, 08:46 AMUnderdog2204
I don't see the problem with the timer.
Why are people holding onto ammo of over 30 seconds anyway? Even traveling between trash pulls doesn't take longer than that. Why waste two of those that you have saved on your inevitable Hot Shot and Lead Shot? Why ask for a change that could very easily cause loss of synergy with the timers on other skills?
I like the "in battle" use of Ammo on MCH... The last thing we need is something to help boost the opener and I hardly find "if I want to afk pre-pull" a compelling argument.
But yes TC ammo is strong that is why you want the change, if it wasn't this wouldn't bother you. -
06-11-2016, 09:36 AMAeliott:/Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog2204
What bothers me is spamming the hell out of it when waiting while people are talking / waiting for CDs pre-pull in raids. You know, the harder content when people want to do as much damage as possible and have no reason not to utilise ammo before pulling. +40 potency is better than +0. I said it was minor in my original post. I don't care about it in trash pulls or anything that isn't Savage and to a lesser extent Extreme Trial.
But "the last thing we need is something to help boost the opener"....what? Removing the timer does absolutely nothing to change the amount of damage output people will do. Why on earth have you just accused me of being some kind of buff scrounger? It's quality of life. The only thing it changes is not having to constantly press it to avoid losing it altogether until everyone's ready, but apparently that means I want to "afk pre pull"? Like SCH, SMN and MNK do with their charges that don't drop off and are infinitely more valuable? That fact you said this implies you're unfamiliar with common raid environments, not to sound elitist. With or without that 30 second countdown people are going to be doing the same damage. Do you realise how ridiculous your argument is?
If the timer remains in the game forever then I'll roll along with it, but that still doesn't mean it has a purpose. And that lack of purpose is why I'm bringing it up. -
06-11-2016, 10:24 AMUnderdog2204Jeeze you're defensive...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliott
I didn't accuse you of anything and if just repeating an argument put forward offends you then you are just ridiculous -_-
Or is feigning outrage over nothing something you like to do? Or is anyone who has a different opinion attacking you personally? Or is this thread only to suit your own ego where everyone just nods and goes "yes you are sooo right!"?
Pick one, none of them are great options. -
06-11-2016, 10:47 AMAeliottQuote:
Originally Posted by Underdog2204
^Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog2204
Different opinions are beautiful, and hardly an attack upon me, though your line about "ammo being strong" and the only reason I want the timer removed is in that ball park. I didn't say that and nothing I said prior implied that. On the contrary in my original post I implied I didn't think it was worth such hassle to warrant dropping off. No, I don't think it's strong enough to warrant being able to fall off at all, and consequently that's not why I want it removed, but you put those words in my mouth. If you hadn't said that maybe I wouldn't be defensive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog2204
If there's a perfectly good reason for its existence then I'm absolutely open to hearing it. The topic title is a question, not a demand or some kind of cry for people to worship me for having a pet peeve.
To respond to your edit, timer synergies aren't thrown off since Reload and Quick Reload will still have their 1m / 15s cooldowns. -
06-11-2016, 10:54 AMUnderdog2204I do and think you are understating it's usefulness... It's especially easy to see how big a change it can make when using it for AoE rotations. It's not as easy to say "well SMM/SCH has aetherflow" when our toolkit is entirely different. SCH's need their stacks on hand to react accordingly to changing circumstances so SMN gets it's too as they share the same mechanics and they both only get 3 per use. We get 9 bullets in the same amount of time and each of those bullets gives us +20 potency and a guarenteed proc, a proc you may not have got without them, so it could technically be counted as a +220/+200 potency for every clean shot you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliott
How many 2nd wildfires have you got though without ammo whilst pulling off the same amount and type of shots as you would have if you did have it? I don't think it has ever occured with me, mind you the RNG gods really hate me.
You cannot compare them like they are the same, they are vastly different just as the jobs themselves are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliott
So what words did I put in your mouth again? Oh yeah I didn't -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliott
I'm not saying you are asking for buffs to get stronger, I'm simply stating that a QoL change like this could have consequences in the future. Especially since it's on a rather intergal part of the jobs toolkit.