Bloodletter and Rain of Death

So I keep hearing complaints about two abilities that were shall we say, incomtable with Wanderer's Minuet. I was think that if should at least change these two abilities to synergize Better with Minuet

First off, I would suggest removing the CD reset while in Minuet, since players seem unable to make use of it as they like anyway, instead replacing it with a chance for TP/MP recovery. In addition, Bloodletter and Rain of Blood should have a buff while in Minuet, the allowment of casting for the next Single-target or AoE skill, respectibly while moving, as well as higher potency to make up for the missed procs.

What do you think?

And Yes I'm not far enough with BRD for WM an am thus likely unqualified to make suggestions like this, this thread is based on hearsay from the usual forum complaints.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

So I keep hearing complaints about two abilities that were shall we say, incomtable with Wanderer's Minuet. I was think that if should at least change these two abilities to synergize Better with Minuet

First off, I would suggest removing the CD reset while in Minuet, since players seem unable to make use of it as they like anyway, instead replacing it with a chance for TP/MP recovery. In addition, Bloodletter and Rain of Blood should have a buff while in Minuet, the allowment of casting for the nest Single-target or AoE skill, respectibly while moving, as well as higher potency to make up for the missed procs.

What do you think?

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just to get an idea, i for about 1 minute kept my dots up on a dummy and had 10 resets. thats a reset roughly every 6 seconds. thats 150 pot for each reset. the tp/mp recovery being next to useless, the change in pot to make your change worth while would have to be pretty busted

I can't help but be curious why you think these two aren't compatible with WM?

WM's cast times aren't as long as your GCD timer. You can fit these skills in after any use of a GCD and it's a net DPS gain. The cast times on Bard/MCH while in barrel/Minuet are short enough to accomodate this. I think they're fine as they are.

That CD reset is a godsend though? Remove it at all and we'd have a problem

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I can't help but be curious why you think these two aren't compatible with WM?

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Becuase as I mentioned (and added to the OP), I keep seeing posts about how WM apparently messes with those procs (It was on the WM/Gauss Bartrel thread), an have not leveled enough for BRD to test it myself

the only fix that is acceptable , is making bloodletter and RoD gain "charges" so if get a proc reset when u start casting and another before u are able to use BL or RoD u dont lose 1 proc...and u can implement that in other procs (firestarter and thundercloud 4 example)...

or let bard cast BL/ROD WHILE CASTING...

i dont have tp problems not even in raid... there are enough "downtime" in every raid that being tp starved is a no-issue , plus invigorate is always there... MP restoration isnt a dps gain for the bard ..

removing the proc is killing this job , we are a crit job for a reason , is the best stat across the board , but as BRD we gain something (dot crits proc BL reset)

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Becuase as I mentioned (and added to the OP), I keep seeing posts about how WM apparently messes with those procs (It was on the WM/Gauss Bartrel thread), an have not leveled enough for BRD to test it myself

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Huh, weird. I guess I'd need a more experienced bard to explain it to me. Sorry for the trouble. XD

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Becuase as I mentioned (and added to the OP), I keep seeing posts about how WM apparently messes with those procs (It was on the WM/Gauss Bartrel thread), an have not leveled enough for BRD to test it myself

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I can tell you right now that it doesn't affect it enough to make a fix like this, but thanks for trying I guess.
Warlyx's idea of charges is pretty fine; I like that.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I can't help but be curious why you think these two aren't compatible with WM?

WM's cast times aren't as long as your GCD timer. You can fit these skills in after any use of a GCD and it's a net DPS gain. The cast times on Bard/MCH while in barrel/Minuet are short enough to accomodate this. I think they're fine as they are.

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It's more about the fact that sometimes unused bloodletters reset while casting, whereas if WM didn't exist, you'd have been able to use it before it reset. It makes everything feel clunky as hell.

MCH doesn't have this problem because they have numerous procs and abilities through their bullet system that specifically cancels out the casting, not to mention the fact that they don't get any CD resets to complicate matters. Bard doesn't have anything nearly as elaborate built into their version of the system, and also happens to be far more restrictive at the same time. To compare how both are designed...

Gauss Barrel - Changes to pre-52 skills:
- Rapid Fire: Gauss Barrel cast time canceled for the next 3 weaponskills
- Enhanced Slug Shot: 50% chance after using Split Shot for Slug Shot to be used with no cast time (100% if bullets are loaded)
- Enhanced Clean Shot: 50% chance after using Slug Shot for Clean Shot to be used with no cast time (100% if bullets are loaded)

Gauss Barrel - Post-52 skills that require it turned on:
- Gauss Round: 20 second CD instant cast with 200 potency
- Ricochet: 60 second CD instant cast with 100 potency to initial target and 200 distributed among nearby targets
(Turrets also get to continue auto-attacking while Gauss Barrel is turned on. Promotion's TP/MP restoration is still instant cast, and using it only comes at the loss of turret auto attacks.)

Wanderer's Minuet - Changes to pre-52 skills:
- Straighter Shot: 20% chance after using Heavy Shot for Straight Shot to be used with no cast time

Wanderer's Minuet - Post-52 skills that require it turned on:
- Emperyal Arrow: 15 second CD 1.5 second cast time with 220 potency. (Cast time admittedly exists here because Barrage wouldn't work with Emperyal without it.)
- Iron Jaws: Global CD skill, refreshes duration of Windbite and Venomous Bite DoTs
(Bard songs still have a 3 second cast time + the TP/MP songs still reduce the Bard's overall damage by 15% upon use.)

You can tell which version is far more thought out, and which one feels more like a last second decision. Machinist version encourages players to think about how best to use their bullets to remain mobile and weave in off-GCDs more easily. Use of Wanderer's Minuet is only justified by gating two essential skills behind it. That sort of design is extremely sour from a balancing standpoint.

It also doesn't help that Bloodletter is sometimes buggy as hell, as in using Bloodletter sometimes cancels out your next skill, or Bloodletter is canceled by your next skill if you try casting your next skill too early. I would guess one of the future Bard adjustments for 3.3 might be to reduce the Bloodletter animation delay before you get to cast your next skill. Besides the obvious 'Wide Volley is COMPLETELY useless right now'.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I can't help but be curious why you think these two aren't compatible with WM?

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Before WM, you could squeeze in two OGCD abilities for every GCD ability. With the cast times, you can only manage one. This in turn means that you have less opportunity to use the bloodletter resets you get. Not only can it reset twice over during your cast time and animation lock, you also have a bunch of other OGCD abilities as bard that you need to weave in somewhere. Essentially, the OGCD window is much more busy and therefore, bloodletter procs that could previously be used are getting lost.