Total Damage Dealt and "low dps".

PSA: There's a difference.

Just played a match as DRG where the healer couldn't keep us up, a well known bad SMN who was randomly attacking everyone that when asked why, said "I'm on everyone". The tank was playing well.

I finished with 130k damage dealt (yeah it's low due to my deaths and healer deaths, I'm usually around 190-200k) in 8 minutes, the Summoner was at 230k. At the end the Summoner said "low dps" and scurried off.

Bigger numbers are not always better.
I had 5 kills because I know how and when to buffer and when to burst. The SMN had 1 which was through sheer chance after spamming bane multiple times through the fight. Nobody was ever on the marked targets but me and the tank (occasionally).

Instead of just looking at your bigger numbers, think about the group's composition and play accordingly. It was a WHM, of course he's going to keep Med2 up. Dont just DoT spam everyone and deathflare a random target who's at 100% hp.

You're right, although in *most* games, the team with the higher total damage done wins.

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Originally Posted by Ricebowl

You're right, although in *most* games, the team with the higher total damage done wins.

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This. Higher total damage done even if it doesn't score a kill will still put pressure on an enemy healer.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

This. Higher total damage done even if it doesn't score a kill will still put pressure on an enemy healer.

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Depends on the party comp and the skill of the healer in the example I said, it's just easily countered by a Med2. If it was an AST or SCH then it would be different. It was mostly just a saltpost, but what you said is something I wanted to put in the OP because it's generally true. The 1000 word limit is such a pain.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

This. Higher total damage done even if it doesn't score a kill will still put pressure on an enemy healer.

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I have only played SMN in feast and through wins and losses this is what I find to be true. Repeatedly using bane to apply constant pressure will require them to have AoE heals up frequently, burning MP and cooldowns (because dmg is being concentrated on someone on that healer's team inbetween AoE heals). These AoE's repeatedly force the healer into the open if not stacked up (if stacked up, bane), so they have to abandon their hiding game for a short time or risk missing a player with their AoE (forcing a single target heal).

Playing like this does rely on your team being good (what doesn't) and understanding that burst won't be applied like the other ranged DPS. I encourage my team to wait for someone to be neglected, someone with DoTs up, and coordinate burst there.

This says nothing of SMN's other abilities, like virus/misty veil on healer and miasma/malady on target prior to burst. It's a war of attrition that is unlike the usual "live through the burst repeatedly" game that otherwise happens.

But if deathflare was up and they used it on someone at 100%, there's not really a clear answer to that, maybe timer was running out and nobody nearby, nobody at lower health being focused, etc.

Eh, partying with someone like that would frustrate me too. Fortunately, I don't have to because I'm a summoner. :P

But seriously, what others said is true -- applying added pressure by spreading dots is very important, which is probably why our dot timers were nerfed (and any self-respecting SMN should have higher DPS than anyone else in a long game -- and that's because of how dot damage works). However, it's also important to focus down a target when you know your group is going for a kill. SMN has a lot of burst abilities available at his/her disposal in addition to the typical aether stack-driven ones (including PvP abilities), so it's important to hold/use those when you know you're going to land a crucial kill. As far as the SMN doing 230k dps... that doesn't mean anything to me if it isn't 'effective' dps. If the healer on the opposite team is any good, they're probably not going to feel much of a challenge keeping people up when damage is split like that, especially if their teammates are smart about not LoSing the healer.

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Originally Posted by itsoni

The 1000 word limit is such a pain.

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You can surpass the word limit by using the "edit" function. Just edit your initial post to go beyond the limit. If you want to avoid people responding to your initial 1000 character post before you're done typing your edit, you can also type the entire thing out in one go. Type it out. Highlight and copy everything after the first sentence (cntr-C, on most PC's). Post the first sentence only. Then, quickly edit and paste on the rest to your original post (Cntr-V, on most PC's). Boom. nearly instant bigger than 1000 character post.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Word limit haxx

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Wow thanks man, this will definitely make things easier.

Max damage does not always mean good pressure ,or burst. When i go as drk i generally tie war for total damage dealt. However if you think about me spamming rotation constantly trying to make a difference v.s. war looking at the situation and lining up the superior burst they possess in order to take maximum advantage it really speaks to the useless nature of that damage done total at the end of match.

I just want to say before anything else, thank you for understand that tanks can't always be on marked targets. We often are busy harassing healers, stunning high threat targets, blinding melee, and going after the classes we hit the hardest. While yes, I like dumping 7-8k damage in one GCD through well timed DA Carve and Spit -> DA Souleater, I can only do that once a minute, the rest of the time I've got better things to do.

Now, onto the topic at hand, I'm in agreement. Bigger numbers are almost never better, actually. I rather have DPS that just kited people while waiting on cooldowns and taking the PvE objectives (battle supplies), than DPS that just punched people the entire match while wasting their cooldowns. Burst is so important in PvP and so many people waste their burst doing PvE rotations. If you want to keep the healer healing, spread your DoTs, don't use your abilities until you're ready to kill someone, and go on a target as soon as its been called.