[SPOILER] Nidhogg

[ Warning : Old Spoilers ]

I dont remember who said this, but seein that couple of people were saing the same thing, I wanted to created a thread so we can put this to a conclusion or keep debating.

Some people said that we are fighitng the idea or the phantom of Nidhoog. That ' s rage left on their eyes transformed Estenien into a new Nidhood.

But are we sure we are just fighting the idea of Nidhoog or rather his phantom. That the real one died on the Aery?
I'm asking, is not there another great dragon that could avoid dead or pretender to be dead? If midgarsomir was able to do so, why not one his sons? Also before we talked to myddi did not his eyes the first things it glowed, and just after he like just showed up? Cannot be that Nidhogg's aether stayed on his eyes and just possesing Estenein to have another body?

One thing is for sure, we know very little about celestial dragons and how their work and use the aether arround us. After seeing what Midgarsomir and Nidhogg were able to do, I cannot agreed that he is really dead.

How about we include [SPOILER] in the title and avoid any direct input of the spoiler itself?

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

How about we include [SPOILER] in the title and avoid any direct input of the spoiler itself?

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its not an spoiler anymore since is back to 2.5 and early 3.0, but okay.

Mid 3.0, but now I'm just being pedantic.

Keep it together; you're going to be senpai for green tanks in a few days!

Err. Abridged ver.: yes and no.

More complex answer: unlike Midgardsormr, Nidhogg didn't leave a corpse behind. Instead, the only thing that remained of him was his eyes, which yes, are stated to be the source of a dragon's life essence and Nidhogg's specifically to contain his rancor. The difference between what Midgardsormr and Nidhogg did was that Middy used the aether from sealing our Blessing to reconstruct his body without a host, while Nidhogg's rancor (hate, rage, etc. for people who don't follow the baroque language of the English version) possessed Estinien and reconstructed his body.

Of course, since Nidhogg was little more than hate and rage by the end, it makes little difference, but aside from Midgardsormr's initial comment he is referred to only as Nidhogg's "rancor" and "shade." Functionally there's no distinction, but technically Estinien-Nidhogg is different from the genuine article. (I think the Japanese version even calls him a "demon dragon" as opposed to a celestial dragon or somesuch.)

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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But appart from his rancor, doesnt contain his life essence?

I don't know. I get the feeling that the direction the game is going will end up being something like "Nidhogg has truly been dead since Ratatoskr was betrayed." Which is true, in a sense, since the old Nidhogg is dead and all that is left is an empty shell that embodies of hate.

Edit: aww, darn, Cilia ninja'd me.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

But appart from his rancor, doesnt contain his life essence?

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Sort of...?

Let's think back to Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg sharing eyes (basically). Nidhogg was on death's doorstep before Hraesvelgr gave him one of his eyes, but that didn't color Nidhogg's psyche at all. Then Nidhogg's corporeal body disappeared after Estinien gouged out said eye. Thus, clearly dragons need an eye - any dragon's eye - to maintain a corporeal form. Nidhogg had none, and vanished from the world accordingly. Except his eyes.

Think of it like blood or vital organs. You need them to live, but they don't have to be yours - any compatible ones will do. If you don't have them, you die, end of story. Your organs, even though you died, can still be used to save another person's life by transplanting them in, though; you'll remain dead. Now, if your will / emotions lingered in your organs and was able to possess people, you could pull a Nidhogg.

Back in fantasy land: Nidhogg had (or once had) emotional settings besides "hate and rage," while that's all that lingered in his eyes after his death. Thus, Estinien-Nidhogg isn't Nidhogg reborn, but his lingering hatred possessing Estinien's body and somehow reconstituting Nidhogg's form.

I believe there was also a point made that all Elezen of Ishgard carry the taint of dragon blood, and thus can be turned into a dragon by awakening that blood. It's what allows the heretics we fight to turn themselves into dragons. I believe this is what happened to Estinien, and courtesy of the eyes, the dragon he became was Nidhogg.

But the Azure Dragoon is also capable of completely purging themselves of dragon taint at the cost of their powers, according to the job quests. I'm much more interested in if/when they'll bring that up again.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Sort of...?

Let's think back to Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg sharing eyes (basically). Nidhogg was on death's doorstep before Hraesvelgr gave him one of his eyes, but that didn't color Nidhogg's psyche at all. Then Nidhogg's corporeal body disappeared after Estinien gouged out said eye. Thus, clearly dragons need an eye - any dragon's eye - to maintain a corporeal form. Nidhogg had none, and vanished from the world accordingly. Except his eyes.

Think of it like blood or vital organs. You need them to live, but they don't have to be yours - any compatible ones will do. If you don't have them, you die, end of story. Your organs, even though you died, can still be used to save another person's life by transplanting them in, though; you'll remain dead. Now, if your will / emotions lingered in your organs and was able to possess people, you could pull a Nidhogg.

Back in fantasy land: Nidhogg had (or once had) emotional settings besides "hate and rage," while that's all that lingered in his eyes after his death. Thus, Estinien-Nidhogg isn't Nidhogg reborn, but his lingering hatred possessing Estinien's body and somehow reconstituting Nidhogg's form.

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But what about Midgarsomir then? His body was just a corpse, so far we know.

I've been wondering about the stuff about Eyes, does this only apply to the First Brood? I'm pretty sure Midgardsormr's eyes are still on that shinryu corpse, and no one has ever brought up lesser dragon's eyes being harvested as power sources. And then there's the heretics that have transformed, how does that work?

Though I think the real question is what exactly did King Thordan do to/with Rataoskr's eyes, and where did Bahamut's eyes go?