Pld Aoe enmity

So, haven't really been to tank forums in a while, so haven't read up on things. So I have no idea on pld's since I haven't got it to 60.

But just a question regarding Paladin's aoe enmity.

I just went on a soloque Expert roulet and had a pld tanking, I'm a mnk.

1st pull in Pharo's HM, so thought I might as well go all out on these cause who needs perfect balance for bosses anyway.
->Suddenly I'm tanking everything. Eventhough pld is in shield oath + has flashed so much that he has no MP left.

Sooo.

Does it matter that pld has only fending accessories, or does str affect the amount of enmity generated by a flash or is it just based on ilvl of the weapon (we both had i200 wepaons)

Cause it feels broken that pld can't keep up with a mank aoe burst enmity wise, no other tank has had problems, even with full fending.

Flash enmity scales off STR right now.

Maybe they're just bad, I've never had an issue holding hate in AOE situations as a PLD.

You can't base a job's performance on one guy. And it sounds like he did something wrong tbh, as I don't have any trouble keeping hate either as Pld.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

And I have no idea on pld's since I haven't got it to 60.
Cause it feels broken that pld can't keep up with a mank aoe burst enmity wise, no other tank has had problems, even with full fending.

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Just because you find 1 fail player, you can't label them all as "broken".
That PLD in your party was useless.

As far as I knew how to play pld at 50 for aoe enmity it was just, spam flash and then riotblade mp back up, so after flash spam till no MP I would had assumed he's doing it right, guess not then. Do educate me how it could had been different

I've tanked both expert dungeons as a ilvl 195 PLD with higher players before, PLD barely has any problems with AoE threat. Sounds like that player was bad.

Was he cracking circle of scorn?

Dunno how it is now (imagine it's pretty easy to keep threat), but generally if you lost threat for whatever reason you just Cover the person who took it and Flash/CoS/etc.

As PLD I open each pull with:
Marking Target Macro on first mob to die > Fight or Flight > Shield Lob > CoS > Flash > Fast Blade (targeting first mob to die) > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Flash > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone > Flash > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority (Repeat).

I basically never lose Enmity unless the DPS are single targeting the wrong mob.

FYI, I currently wear all STR accessories due to the current META but that should change to VIT with 3.2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

As far as I knew how to play pld at 50 for aoe enmity it was just, spam flash and then riotblade mp back up, so after flash spam till no MP I would had assumed he's doing it right, guess not then. Do educate me how it could had been different

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Flash has one of the lowest enmity generations out of all of Pld's enmity moves. It scales with Str, but it is very weak. So, a Pld can lose enmity if he/she is purely relying on Flash to hold hate, especially if they are out-geared by any significant margin. Flash does not scale with attack power (it's not considered a physical attack), so the weapon makes no difference, only the amount of Str they have.

Before HW came out, a full-spec'd Pld (ilvl 130) who was running with an average party could hold hate by rotating Shield Lob > FoF > CoS > Flash > Fast Blade > Flash > Riot Blade > Flash > etc. However, if the Dps know what they are doing, spamming flash would not be sufficient. A proper Pld rotation involved using the RoH combo in tandem with Flash.

Both Savage Blade and RoH secure a much higher amount of enmity than Flash can alone, so the proper Pld AoE rotation was: Shield Lob > FoF > CoS > Fast Blade > Flash > Savage Blade (new target) > RoH (new target, priority on physical dmg debuff) > Flash (re-apply blind debuff) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > RoH > Flash > etc.

The two things to look out for were the number of adds being tanked and the strength of your Dps's AoE's. If you had a Dps in the group who had a very strong AoE rotation, an additional Flash might have been necessary, especially if you were tanking a particularly large group of mobs. RoH can only be rotated so quickly. The more targets there are, the slower the Pld will be at whacking them with a good Savage Blade or RoH. In the meantime, CoS and Flash are the only things holding enmity on those peripheral targets, so if it's a large mob with strong AoE Dps, an extra Flash here or there was fine.

The lvl 60 Pld rotation essentially works the same way, only, once the Pld has secured enmity and applied a few Str down debuffs, they can swap to GB or RA instead of RoH.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Dunno how it is now (imagine it's pretty easy to keep threat), but generally if you lost threat for whatever reason you just Cover the person who took it and Flash/CoS/etc.

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This is correct as well. Pld's always have the ability to protect a party member who pulls hate (assuming it is one party member and not several) by using Cover. In fact, it is actually sometimes easier to allow the healer to pull hate while you cover them and then start your AoE rotation. It's called a Proxy Pull. You basically use your party members (usually the healer) as bait to gather all the mobs up in one spot.

That said, it does not work out so well if your party members run away from you while you cover them. so telling them you're going to do it is usually a wise move.