Make Each Class Use Each Stat

Here is an idea that everyone will hate! \o/ (except a few others like myself)

Let's make each primary stat actually have an effect on each of the jobs.

STR could improve CRT
DEX could improve accuracy and determination
MND could improve spell speed/skill speed
INT could improve TP refresh/MP refresh

Then

You could have a SCH who slots up STR accessories or the 30 points, for higher crit'd adlos if they so choose to sacrifice the MND

You could have a WHM slot in DEX to meet accuracy requirements

You could have BLM using MND for faster Fire IV's

You could have tanks slot in DEX for to meet the high frontal accuracy cap

You could have bards slot in STR for CRITs and bloodletter procs

You could have melee slot in INT so they wouldn't have to worry about TP woes on AoE heavy encounters

etc etc.

I think this change would couple well with the upcoming changes to Materia slots being added to more gear


EDIT: Alternatively, can we remove the 35 bonus attributes and have them automatic. 0 reason to pick anything other than your main stat currently.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Here is an idea that everyone will hate! \o/ (except a few others like myself)

Let's make each primary stat actually have an effect on each of the jobs.

STR could improve CRT
DEX could improve accuracy and determination
MND could improve spell speed/skill speed
INT could improve TP refresh/MP refresh

.

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makes gear progression too hard to "control" on SE's end.
They killed STR accessories for tank and force tank to use VIT accessories... you think they gonna allow that to happen?

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Originally Posted by Furiea

makes gear progression too hard to "control" on SE's end.
They killed STR accessories for tank and force tank to use VIT accessories... you think they gonna allow that to happen?

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No, sadly, I doubt they would let this happen. That said, I think 99.9% (999 of every 1000) of the suggestions/threads on the forum would go largely ignored by the devs.

Despite this, I can dream. This would create a much more involved and interesting system.

I can't see anyone wanting to give up 47 points of their primary stat per piece for what amounts to an alternate way to get secondary stats. Even if you assume a 1:1 ratio on, say, STR to CRIT, there's no way I'd give up 47 mind for 47 crit. That's losing way too much overall heal potency (and attack potency, when in Cleric Stance) for a smidge more possibility at a crit. Our secondary stats aren't powerful enough for this to be anything but another illusion of choice.

What's the justification for DEX increasing DET, MND increasing SKSP, and INT increasing TP refresh though? o.O

This is such a terrible idea...

I'm sorry but no. Just having more secondary stats would be better than this.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I can't see anyone wanting to give up 47 points of their primary stat per piece for what amounts to an alternate way to get secondary stats. Even if you assume a 1:1 ratio on, say, STR to CRIT, there's no way I'd give up 47 mind for 47 crit. That's losing way too much overall heal potency (and attack potency, when in Cleric Stance) for a smidge more possibility at a crit. Our secondary stats aren't powerful enough for this to be anything but another illusion of choice.

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I was assuming a higher stat proficiency than the current secondary stats. As for an Illusion of Choice, I personally really dislike this statement and feel it is thrown around way to often. One could make an argument that everything in the world is an illusion of choice, but that is way too philosophical. I don't think having different playstyles needs to be some illusion. I also think that certain builds would be better for certain encounters, i.e. MNK using INT for TP refresh on A2S, but not during other savage levels - or a WHM slotting in DEX for accuracy when they want to DPS, but going full MND during more progression minded encounters.

EDIT: To elaborate a little bit more on this. Currently, with stat weights, my Summoner has ~3500 INT. When I remove 35 int, I lost 1% of my DPS, or theoretically going from 1300 to 1287. It's fairly insignificant, and the variation in latency, critical hits, and RNG will affect your DPS more than this change. However, if you were adding those 35 points into TP refresh, so that your BRD doesn't need to use Paeon, or add it to CRT so you (as a BRD now) can get more bloodletter procs, could result in a higher raid DPS. It would be probably the most beneficial to a BLM who could slot in for spell speed to get an extra Fire IV in their rotation - which would be more beneficial than a 1% damage increase.

I figure that many of us have these varied accessories anyway, and we have the ability to change our 35 attribute points quite easily, this would open doors to actually let people do that.

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What's the justification for DEX increasing DET, MND increasing SKSP, and INT increasing TP refresh though? o.O

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Great question and that's totally up for discussion. That said, I think someone who is mindful would be able to do things more quickly, and someone who is intelligent would be great at managing resources. I picked DET for DEX as it was the closest we have to something like armor piercing, which I'd associate with DEX.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

This is such a terrible idea...

I'm sorry but no. Just having more secondary stats would be better than this.

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As much as I appreciate everyone who takes part in the discussion, whether you agree or disagree, I feel you could phrase your disagreement in a more respectful and productive manner. To argue your point, the reason why I think this system is superior, is due to the systems we have in place (attribute point spending and cross gear accessories). That said, I am all for interesting secondary stats.


Forum limit, replying to below posts here.

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Originally Posted by Averax

Then what exactly would be the point of secondary stats like skill/spell speed, crit, piety, etc...???

I have a suggestions.

Keep stats as they are, but change stats we can put points into to the secondary stats.

As it is now, everyone's just throwing their points into their main stat, there's not a whole huge point to them. If we could put them into secondary stats, we could enhance the secondary stats we're lacking in.

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Great idea for sure. That would be another way to work around it! However, I'd suggest we lock accessories by job and class if we went this direction instead.

To answer your first question, skill speed, spell speed, crit etc would still be useful. For example, you may have 600 CRIT on your current gear build. You could swap out 35 MND (as you're a WHM) for 35 STR, as the general stat weight for CRT for most jobs (no idea for WHM) is ~0.2ish, we could say 35 STR = 175 CRT, so your CRIT would jump to 775. The majority is still clearly from your other gear, but the 35 attribute points make a significant dent.

Weights, values etc. would naturally need to be tested and balanced.

Then what exactly would be the point of secondary stats like skill/spell speed, crit, piety, etc...???

I have a suggestions.

Keep stats as they are, but change stats we can put points into to the secondary stats.

As it is now, everyone's just throwing their points into their main stat, there's not a whole huge point to them. If we could put them into secondary stats, we could enhance the secondary stats we're lacking in.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

As much as I appreciate everyone who takes part in the discussion, whether you agree or disagree, I feel you could phrase your disagreement in a more respectful and productive manner. To argue your point, the reason why I think this system is superior, is due to the systems we have in place (attribute point spending and cross gear accessories). That said, I am all for interesting secondary stats.

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It bleeds illusion of choice and it breaks the foundation that the game already sits on. People would just theorycraft which stat gives each class the most damage anyway and then that would be their new main stat, while everyone else who tries something different is labeled as a terrible player and would be kicked from groups, that's why it's terrible.

Sorry if that offended you. This just would not work in this current MMO age, thus it's a terrible idea.

FFXIV is designed with almost no variety or diversity in builds and stats. Sadly, there's barely even an illusion of choice. Every job has the same abilities with the same stats and the same rotation. While I would like to see more interesting stats, I think we're stuck with what we have given that SE seems to like everything as homogenized as possible.

The most we are likely to see is smaller changes like VIT on tanks rather than an entire overhaul of the stat system.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

This just would not work in this current MMO age, thus it's a terrible idea.

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Stats could still have been made more interesting than they are. They are reallllly bland.Using an example from a less popular game (with much more interesting gameplay, in my opinion):

The Secret World stats:

Hit Rating: determines accuracy. low Hit Rating results in Glanced attacks (lower damage and no procs) or can be evaded.

Critical Rating: increases Critical Hit/Heal%. Critical Hits can be Blocked, however, reducing their damage.

Critical Power: increases the potency of Critical Hits and Critical Heals.

Penetration: prevents attacks from being Blocked, and can cause hits to Penetrate, which ignores a portion of defensive stats dealing extra damage.

Evasion: chance to complete evade an attack and take no damage.

Block: chance to Block an attack and receive less damage. Chance to negate critical hits.

Defense: chance to have attacks against you Glance, reducing incoming damage and negating any additional effects such as procs.

Gear can be custom-made to include any combination of these stats, but they work together. You can make a high Critical build, but you might be Blocked a lot. You can make a Penetration build to avoid blocks altogether, but your critical hits will be less frequent. You can make a balanced build with some of everything. Tank stats can be mixed and matched or you can focus on one. Or, you can be a DPS-focused tank - one of the more popular builds stacks Penetration rather than defensive stays because a particular ability reduces enemy damage output by a large amount if you frequently Penetrate. Even certain Healers can male use of every stat as Leech healing requires DPS to heal your defensive target.

The game is designed to allow you to make these choices. I'm not generally one to compare one game to another, but in this case, I do think more interesting stats can work just fine in a current MMO. The problem is that FFXIV was designed to be waaaay too vanilla, and now it's probably too late to make any sort of massive changes to the core elements of the game. Heck, it's already been destroyed and Reborn once already.