Random Query: The Trinity System

So the goal here is really just to have a (unlikely...but I'm trying anyways...) friendly discussion/musing on the Trinity System in this game.

Simply put:
Do you believe FFXIV should keep the Trinity System?
Or
Should it adopt the model where every class is self-sufficient?

Once you've decided, please explain why you went with your choice.
For the sake of discussion lets assume the game can be changed.
This is to rule out the: "The game engine/architecture won't allow such a change." Responses.
Obviously this is a legit response. But it makes for a boring conversation.

Both paths have pros and cons.
To begin the conversation...I'll list pros to changing to a system of self-sufficiency.
Pros:
- Combat becomes completely reliant on player skill & strategy.
- Everyone can be the class they desire. A true end to: "___ job should be ___ role."
- No longer will folks debate on ___ role needing to do ___. (Ex: Healers must do dmg in addition to healing. Tanks must do ___.) As Damage mitigation, damage dealing, & Healing will be more or less each player's responsibility and not 1 roles.

Cons:
- Class diversity will probably take a hit to keep balance.
- Group gameplay will lack synergy as everyone can and probably will do whatever they want.
- Possibly no longer a reason to group with others.

IMO the pros outweigh the cons. But *shrug* eitherway I'm fine. Just curious to what others think.

Edit: Just noticed my horrible Title.
Wasn't paying attention to the autocorrect when I made this thread.

Edit 2:
I hear Guild Wars 2 uses a Self-sufficient system. Can anyone speak/elaborate on how group play works with that game?

I miss support roles that aren't these pseudo hybrids. Would it work? I don't know. The game is designed that everyone can solo content in the open world, and I wouldn't want to lose out on that.

I prefer self sufficiency, In dungeons and open world. Relying on others to succeed your goals isn't my exact fantasy but it brings players together (whether you want it or not). To be honest, I think DC universe has this style down packed. Healer class jobs have some sustainability in most of the game as well as the other classes.

I say this being a player coming from FFXI (the only paid MMO outside of FFXIV I've played):

If, and only if, they can make all jobs viable in all content while staying true to the job's roots (BRD supporting more than MP/TP recovery and magic damage, BLM using more than fire/ice/thunder magic, etc.) should they ditch the trinity system. The balance issues would far outweigh the pros in my opinion. When things aren't balanced people gravitate towards the best jobs and shun those who play the "lesser" jobs. There's a reason groups didn't want certain jobs (PUP anyone?) in their groups in FFXI; they didn't contribute as much as other jobs.

Plus players find the best thing a job has and find ways to exploit it to the extent of neglecting the rest of the job's tool set. Red Mage being a prime example: it can contribute physical and magical damage, heal, and support magic all at decent levels, but in FFXI parties would generally make Red Mages heal/haste/refresh only (and maybe a couple debuffs like Dia or Bio) simply because other jobs can output more damage (and longer if a mage) if the RDM keeps everyone buffed with haste and refresh.

Or Ninjas: DD (DPS) turned blink tank. People would often choose a Ninja tank over a Paladin or Warrior if the target mob/NM/boss didn't have AoE attacks to eat Utsusemi or attacks that pierce shadows since a good Ninja doesn't need to be healed as often and it did more damage than either PLD or WAR.



On the subject of every job being self sufficient: No.

This is an MMO RPG, there will always be content that requires groups to work together. If every job became self sufficient it would break the game.

I'm not a fan of the trinity system, I would absolutely love it if jobs felt more like in previous FF games. But the trinity does offer game balance. And balance is a very important factor in making multiplayer games.

I prefer the trinity in MMOs. I am a healer and want to stay a healer. I right now do not do DPS on my healer, I am 100% heals. If they got rid of the trinity system they will lose me as a player and I will move on to another MMO. Having everyone be self sufficient in dungeons would be a nightmare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Defias

Simply put:
Do you believe FFXIV should keep the Trinity System?
Or
Should it adopt the model where every class is self-sufficient?

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Neither. Every class should be reliant on others, yet expanded beyond three primary roles. A buff or support role, a debuffer, etc would all be very interesting to include.

Trinity?

I thought we were all flavored DPS these days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Defias

Random Query

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That's bugging the crap out of me; can you change to title to inquiry?
On topic, SE can take page out of it's single player games. The XIII series perfectly balanced 6 jobs and made it so that you can pretty much play however you want in the trash fights, but required you to carefully decide what you wanted to bring to boss fights. Of course they only allowed 3 jobs out of 6 at a time so you had to use some strategy as to when you want to use what. I think they can take the same idea and roll the 6 roles (Commando, Ravanger, Synergest, Sabateur, Medic, and Sentinel) into this type of game, where you can pretty much choose what you want based on the strategy. Of course, there were paradigms that had special bonuses, like tortoise (triple sentinel) or tri-disater (triple ravager) that encouraged you to stack jobs sometimes to implement a strategy, but as long as every job can completely fulfill 2 roles, then I think the idea can work in this game.

In short: Trinity per se, not really. But 6 roles (or I guess it's really 3 if you stack Commando and Ravager as offensive, Medic and Sentinel as Defensive, and Synergist and Sabateur as tactical) would work more clean in a game with 13 jobs.

the trinity is one of the main reasons i bought this game. there are hundreds of games where i can be a DPS with some self healing tools and stuff. i am playing one right now xD

i bought FF14 because here i can play as just a healer. a healer and nothing else. at least this was the idea xD if they don't go back to the trinity soon i am out of here. just want to reach 1000 posts for some reason xP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Defias

So the goal here is really just to have a (unlikely...but I'm trying anyways...) friendly discussion/musing on the Trinity System in this game.

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While the trinity isn't perfect but it means you can have much more interesting encounters.

If you have no tank them you have to make sure bosses dont hit too hard and any damage can't be too frequent as you dont have a dedicated healer to mop up. There also can't be any type of dps check since you have to heal and tank yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kio

I miss support roles that aren't these pseudo hybrids. Would it work? I don't know. The game is designed that everyone can solo content in the open world, and I wouldn't want to lose out on that.

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Support roles exist for the sake of support roles. A support role provides nothing original and just adds unneeded complexity.

If a support role adds a debuff then you need to tune the boss because of the debuff or it becomes too easy. Can't existing tanks have that as a cooldown? Maybe support could add some heals , well can't a healer do that.

Considering raids are 8 man it would mean losing one damage dealer so to make up for that, and more, the buffs would need to be huge.

The little support we have at the moment is more than enough. Bards songs are useful but in no way needed.