Do the Scions or Hydealyn really care for the Warrior of Light?

clickbait title is clickbait. But I wanted to do something to prevent this particular debate from derailing every other thread. Plus I'm actually am curious if you think the Scions/Hydealyn (both planet and crystal) see the WoL is nothing more than a weapon to be pointed at their problems and make them dissapear or if you think they truly seem them as a dear friend or family. And if you think they would be willing to make sacrifices for us even if we were nothing more than a mere adventurer

I've always had this problem with the game since I defeated Ifrit (arguably Titan) in that the WoL is very 2 dimensional and that every problem seems to be solved by throwing the WoL at it until it dies. Although...

*spoilers for DRK storyline*

I loved the DRK story for actually challenging this trend and giving some morality to the players actions.

I do think that the scions care about the WoL as they haven't shown any evidence that they don't, but the player character really has no identity for them to even properly interact with these characters, which makes character building difficult.

As for Hydealyn, we are her champion, which naturally means that our purpose is to fight for her, though I think the relationship is a little bit like a mother and a child with the added bonus of destiny, rather than the WoL being treated like a weapon.

I've discussed my feelings on the Scions in another topic, but Hydaelyn is interesting here.

I actually question if, sometimes, She recognizes you as a specific individual at all, or if you simply had the traits that served Her purposes.

You house a part of Hydaelyn's flesh, in a sense, with your formed crystals, and you serve Her will but - what exactly does that make you to Her? If you are a child, you are a favored child. But why were you favored in the first place, especially if you're a brand new character in 2.0?

I believe the answers are relevant to the deeper lore that we haven't quite delved into yet and, because of that, I don't think we can know the exact answer.

I come from a background of table-top roleplaying games, where the narrative is always open-ended. Nothing is fixed; the story doesn't run on rails, and details can be changed on the fly, in response to unexpected but highly innovative player decisions.

The one lesson I took with me from those campaigns is that what you get from a story depends heavily on what you put into it.

It was this approach to roleplaying that led to the long-running campaign that eventually inspired Tracy and Laura Hickman, and Margaret Weis, to flesh out the characters that made up the world of Dragonlance, arguably one of the most well-known and successful worlds based on D&D rules.

In that regard, I don't think it's fair to describe our characters are "two-dimensional", or "Mary Sues", or whatever else you want to call them. To me, the "muteness" of our characters — the way they are presented to us in-game — represents an opportunity for us to fill in the blanks as we see fit. We are limited only by our imagination.


With that prologue out of the way, here's a few direct answers, based on what little we know:

1. Do the Scions care about the WoL, or are they merely making use of him?

I think we've been shown ample evidence that the Scions care. There is Y'shtola's relief, for example, in seeing the WoL safe and sound, after her return from the Lifestream. There's also Alphinaud's flustered guilt, when Estinien pointed out he was asking the WoL to risk his life in a battle that the young elezen himself could not take part in.

There is the sense, no doubt, that the Scions do rely heavily on their champion. Perhaps too heavily. But there's also a sense that they don't do this lightly. Alphinaud, rightly or wrongly, formed the Crystal Braves because he believed that it was one way to lighten the burden on the Scions, and by extension, the WoL. And the Scions put their own lives on the line in Ul'dah, because they implicitly understood that the only thing that mattered was for the WoL to make it out of the trap in one piece.

To me, it's a fair exchange. Some players may choose, of course, to interpret events in a more cynical light, believing instead that the Scions are being selfish or self-serving. That's perfectly fine, because the facts can be subjective. Depending on what each player brings to the story, the "truth" can take on different shapes.


2. What are Hydaelyn's actual intentions for the WoL?

This is the tougher, somewhat more philosophical question. One might as well ask what God intends for humanity.

Certain things seem clear enough: the WoL is meant to be the light that shines in the darkness, a bulwark against the forces that seek to subvert and destroy the enlightened races.

But that answers only the "what". It tells us nothing about the "why". And the truth is, no one among the enlightened races knows the reason behind Hydaelyn's mysterious gifts. The Ascians appear to know, but they're not sharing (at least, not yet, and not with everyone).

So basically, your guess is as good as mine. Some players find this frustrating. I, on the other hand, find it entirely plausible.

Because, after all, what mere mortal can claim to know the mind of God?

In the absence of certainly, faith is required. Our characters don't know what Hydaelyn intends. They aren't even completely sure if the Twelve exist. But they choose to believe in them, because everything they've seen so far suggests that they represent the greater good.

But faith also includes doubt. It means you choose to carry on believing, even when there is no conclusive evidence to support your beliefs.


3. So, what does any of this mean for our characters, the Warriors of Light?

This is where I return to my original advice: You're limited only by your imagination.

What's your character's backstory? Based on that, what are the plausible reasons for his or her decisions to go along with the Scions' plans? What are the doubts that he or she are dealing with? How is that expressed through your gameplay?

These are the questions that guide how I approach the game. Naturally, I'm not at all claiming that this is the only way to play. It's merely how I choose to immerse myself in a fictional universe. And the more I put into it, the more I get back.

But there's something more. The game universe itself needs to provide sufficient material that resonates with me on some level in order to make this process work. I've spent the past month playing Fallout 4, which is a fabulous game in its own right, rich with its own lore.

I was swept along for a long while, until it suddenly struck me one day that I don't care any more what happened within that game world. The wide-open nature of Fallout 4 also meant that it was a struggle to maintain a consistent theme the deeper I progressed into its story. And, in the end, I gave up. The story was going in so many inconsistent directions that I simply didn't care any more how it'd end.

And so I find myself back in FFXIV. It'll take some practice before I'm up to speed again with my rotations. But on a larger, meta level, it's like I never left. :)

Because the mystery behind Hydaelyn and Zodiark, light and darkness, and balance still resonates with me through my character.

When I started Lyland's journey, it was with a few specific questions in mind: What makes an ideal society? Is it possible to break the cycle of violence, and achieve lasting harmony? Happily enough, FFXIV has been perfectly consistent in this regard, so Lyland's journey continues to run smoothly for me.

From this perspective, the apparent gaps in the story to date aren't gaps at all, but merely questions that await Answers. I'm all ears. :)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

As for Hydealyn, we are her champion, which naturally means that our purpose is to fight for her, though I think the relationship is a little bit like a mother and a child with the added bonus of destiny, rather than the WoL being treated like a weapon.

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In the final MSQ of 3.0, after we reawaken the blessing of light at Azys Lla, Hydaelyn's actually says "Warrior of Light, My Beloved Son/Daughter".

So to me it seems Hydaelyn not only views us as her chosen Champion but also as a Mother would a child. And considering all of the planet's inhabitents are " Hydaelyn's Children" then we actually serve a Protective Eldest Sibbling role by defending all of the planet's people from threats. (Specifically Primals and Ascians, and by extension Zodoark)

For the Scions, I think they are too in awe of us to realize that we have our limits and throwing us at the wall enough times may break us. You do the impossible enough times the idea of something even slowing you down becomes an alien concept.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

For the Scions, I think they are too in awe of us to realize that we have our limits and throwing us at the wall enough times may break us. You do the impossible enough times the idea of something even slowing you down becomes an alien concept.

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Which is why I think if we get compleatly trounced by the Warriors of Darkness in our 1st real battle that it could serve for a.massive scale character development as it would hammer home that we are not invincible or unstoppable and it could start to make some question that oivious "The WoL's Got This" attitude.

Complicated answer, but in the interest of keeping it short and sweet (and getting to bed) I'll try and be brief.

On the Scions
-Hard to say. The question isn't "Do they care about us?", because they clearly do. I never said otherwise, and if someone thinks I did it's likely an inference made in error. The question is which is more important to the Scions: us as a person, or us as the Warrior of Light? There is a difference... and, going by Minfilia's pre-"sacrifice" dialogue, it's the latter. Very rarely do they ask if we're OK psychologically despite the repeated traumatic fights and incidents we go through (in fact, the "fight" bit is in the job description according to some), and while Minfilia does always greet us warmly and refer to us as her friend, she is still taking advantage of our kindness and generosity to further the Scions' aim (protecting Eorzea). We may be a Scion as well, but we're an individual with thoughts and feelings and desires, not just a tool to be thrown at whatever primal crops up. (Any difference in the Warrior of Light's attitude towards this depending on region can probably be chalked up to the Eastern collectivist societal tendencies vs. Western individualist societal tendencies.)

It's for a good cause, though, so it's OK.

On Hydaelyn
-Hard to say. We've been saved numerous times by Her, and she even says she loves us when we get our Blessing back. That said... well, She is a goddess, and thus might function on values that differ greatly from our own. Again, the question is not "Does Hydaelyn care about us?", but what is more important to Her: our wishes, or the good we can do for the world? Like the Scions, I lean towards the latter.

Is it petty and immature to put the wishes of one before the needs of the many? Undoubtedly. But if you don't acknowledge and accept them, some unsavory things can happen to you on a psychological level.

This is where "Fray" comes from - and, as always, the important thing to remember is that s/he is not dark, evil, mean, jackass, petty, immature, or only a little piece of you. "Fray" is you, and you are "Fray." There's no boundary or border where one ends and the other begins. Once you understand and truly accept that, everything s/he says takes on an entirely new light. But I digress.

That depends, really, since there's a bit of variation within the Scions themselves.

I've written entire essays about this before on this very forum, but Alphinaud definitely cares about us as a person after 3.0. Cilla, I know Alphinaud 'doesn't count' as a Scion to you, but I think that's an unfair double-standard. Same goes for Tataru. To quote Alphinaud:

ALPHINAUD
She may not spend her days slaying primals, but Tataru is no less a Scion than you or me. Full oft has her knack for acquiring information proven vital to our endeavors.

So when you say 'Alphinaud and Tataru care about us so they don't count', whether its your intention or not it comes off to me as 'They don't fit my 'the Scions don't actually care about us' narrative so I'm excluding them.' That's a logical fallacy. I just wanted to get that out of the way for future reference because that's bugged me since you mentioned back in the 'Greystone Bastard' thread.

And...I think that's my contribution for the day, unfortunately. I might have more tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

clickbait title is clickbait. But I wanted to do something to prevent this particular debate from derailing every other thread. Plus I'm actually am curious if you think the Scions/Hydealyn (both planet and crystal) see the WoL is nothing more than a weapon to be pointed at their problems and make them dissapear or if you think they truly seem them as a dear friend or family. And if you think they would be willing to make sacrifices for us even if we were nothing more than a mere adventurer

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It would easier to flip the question around to me. Do I care about them? No. Can I do anything about it? No.