Hello there, noob machinist here, I would like to ask if the support these two classes provide is good enough in 4man/faceroll content as I am a little bit worried about that.
The main reason for it is that on my other jobs having MCH or BRD in a group usually means that the run is going to take a while, so I have to wonder if their support abilities warrant them the spot in everyday content.
Getting through my Vault grind atm, I have uncloked all the MCH support abilities and they feel kinda weak, unless other players are doing something wrong.
Dismantle / Rend Mind - 5% dmg reduction 10 seconds out of 90. This seems barely noticable, not to mention that they share CD and you need to know what type of damage is the boss doing. In everyday runs this doesn't seem to help much.
TP/MP regeneration. I bet these are great in long fights, but how often do you get oom or ootp while doing your daily/weekly grind? So far I have been using these mainly while being ootp myself... it is kinda funny as mostly I am the one out of TP when doing aoe. I have to wonder if MCH abilities aren't overpriced due to this turret skill.
Hypercharge - 5% dmg increase. This is really awesome ability till you realise that... It is on 15 seconds out of 120. So you increase dps of party by 5% during 12.5% of encounter. Just this makes the ability seem a lot weaker... and it gets worse. You need to choose between physical or magical damage, which actually means 2.5% dps 12.5% of time. And then there are 4man groups in which the effect is even weaker...
It sorta feels like the support isn't good enough, so I want to ask what is your opinion about this topic?
BRD and MCH support outside the progression
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11-09-2015, 01:44 PMArchaellBRD and MCH support outside the progression
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11-09-2015, 02:10 PMSkyBane001
No, the support skills aren't worth all that much in 4 man content. The best you'll get out of then is turret battery for AoE'ing trash, but most classes can provide decent sustain for themselves. BLM, for example, will only ever need the MP regen if they botch their rotation badly and miss a switch in to Umbral.
As a MCH, the most reliable thing you bring to 4 man content, in my experience, is wildfire burst combo, don't underestimate what a hard push it is. -
11-09-2015, 02:11 PMIz_Lemon
If you learn to maximise your wildfire burst, machinist can do a pretty solid amount of damage. Not to mention that during trash pulls you're more valuable than a melee. In four man pulls pretty much all the ranged have a place as they do superior aoe damage than the melee.
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11-09-2015, 02:25 PMArchaellI kinda wish Wildfire exploded three times (every 5 sec.) as the burst kills most of the trash mobs before it can explode... and it is really disappointing to see it wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iz_Lemon
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11-09-2015, 02:51 PMSleigh
Typically you don't need their MP/TP restorations in dungeons, but BRD/MCH have such strong AoE and multi-DoTs that they are not a liability on the trash. Far from it, they're in the upper ranks of the DPS, and if pulls do last particularly long for some reason their TP restorations will be relevant.
MCH/BRD are in exceptionally good spots for dungeons, don't worry about that. Any slow runs you've had in the past are due to player skill; TBH, most PUG DPS, even the ones who have pride, are pretty sub-par compared to the potential the classes have. I've been leveling some of my final classes the last couple days, and out of MNK, BLM, SMN, MCH, and DRG, the best fellow PUG DPS I got was a DRG on both the trash pulls and boss fights due to him actually understanding the game, when ordinarily the BLM/SMN/MNK/MCH would have destroyed him (at the least on the trash pulls). -
11-10-2015, 03:02 AMFelessanIt's not really longer than with any other class, given that you are skilled enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaell
It's usually poor skill that makes run to take a while, not a class composition. -
11-10-2015, 04:13 AMDante_VSo much this ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Felessan
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11-10-2015, 06:26 PMruskieYup this soooooo much. As a bard at times wound up with another bard in dungeon runs. Could have cried at their poor performance. Then other times went with my friend as bard for a run who even though says bad at dps still does a commendable job and a tank or healer goes: "sigh 2 bards this will be slow". And we just melt everything. So yeah skill is a large part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felessan
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11-12-2015, 08:41 PMDarkmoonVael
MCH burst aoe dps in 4 man content verges on filthy (buffs, hotshot, hypercharged bishop, reload, rapid fire and granado shot/spread shot really adds up fast). I find that the support functionality of MCH doesnt really make a difference in a dungeon to a great extent, although i do use promoted rook on myself to perpetuate aoe dps when needed. Also brings high burst dps for bosses, although i find in dungeons its a play off between using cooldowns for bursting trash mobs via aoe vs burst wildfire damage for bosses - its a bit hard to manage cooldowns to do both without lots of down time before boss pulls.
All in all MCH is in a good place for 4 man content. -
11-12-2015, 10:05 PMBehb
There are a big misconception with BRD/MCH = low DPS in dungeons and in general.
Mostly because 90% of MCH/BRD are so bad that they push 500 DPS at lvl60, ignoring minuet or gauss ...
They ignore multidotting as well to have some free AOE proc. The playstyle change at 52-54 so they are completely lost and don't want to improve.
Some classes does well enough with basic combo rotation/skill. A bad smn will do 750 for example.
I'm always top DPS as a BRD in expert dungeon roulette, with my fellow WHM friend second 95% of the time o_o
This should not happen when you have a MNK/SMN/BLM/DRG as a partner.