https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_percents/
I tried asking on reddit; I don't know if this is an ok thing to ask since SE doesn't like talk of DPS or whatever, but the property stats like Critical, Speed, Determination, and Accuracy seem arbitrary if I don't know exactly how they affect my character.
"Determination 600" Wow that's... cool? Is there any data out there that can describe what the in-game values mean on a percent basis? How do you know if you have enough accuracy for raid bosses, how does speed affect HoT's/DoT's now, etc.
Property stat values?
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10-03-2015, 05:40 AMTizerakProperty stat values?
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10-03-2015, 05:52 AMNyaliaAre you asking about stat weights and accuracy caps? If you Googled it, you should have found your answer on reddit (or elsewhere).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizerak
Here's some links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...vage_acc_caps/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ything_coil_19
https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...ghts/#more-162
EDIT: To clarify what "stat weights" mean, they compare secondary stats and weapon damage to your main stat to get a meaningful comparison. So, if you see:
Ninja:
WD: 10.775
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.141
CRT: 0.166
SS: 0.074
That means that every point of Weapon Damage increases a NIN's damage by the same amount as 10.775 points of Dexterity. ~6 points of Crit will, on average, increase a NIN's DPS by the same amount as 1 point of Dexterity, and 7 points of DET will increase their damage by the same as 1 point of Dexterity. Skill Speed is the worst of the batch for NINs (it causes you to clip your GCD when doing Mudras, which lowers your DPS and lessens the benefit of having more SS), and it takes ~13.5 points of skillspeed to be equal to one point of Dexterity.
When choosing gear, pretty much every class benefits the most from CRIT these days. As a Summoner, "600 crit" is like having an extra 88.2 Intelligence when everything is factored in.
If you're asking what your actual crit percentage and crit damage multiplier are, well, you can look for the formulas. People have worked them out. They're just kinda irrelevant - the stat weights are all that really matter when comparing gear and stats.
Of course, these weights are measured at the endgame, and they're not going to be exactly the same on the way there. But, they're still useful to know. -
10-03-2015, 06:01 AMTizerakThank you, those are great! But, I was wondering if there was something with stat weights for Healers/Tanks as I usually play those instead of DPS, my only lvl 60 is an AST atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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10-03-2015, 06:11 AMNyaliaSorry, don't think so. The problem with healers is that you aren't sitting there chaincasting your biggest heals over and over like you do with DPS. So, the benefits of Spell Speed are far from clear. Crit heals, apart from crit aldo, usually overheal reducing their benefit and making it hard to compare. Because of that, I don't think many people have bothered calculating stat weights for them. I mean, without knowing the exact numbers, I'd expect WHM to want PIE > DET > SS = CRIT because more mana is good for them, SS is only of marginal benefit since you should be pre-casting your heals anyway, but crit makes you overheal to no effect almost always when it triggers. Better to have a consistent increase than a random one for WHM. For SCH though, because of Aetherflow and crit aldo, it's more like CRIT > DET > PIE > SS. You can do that analysis without having numbers, so the numbers aren't as meaningful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizerak
For tanks, what do you compare? Enmity per second? Damage? How do you factor in DPSing while keeping up debuffs that don't increase your DPS, like Rage of Halone or Storm's Path? Are you talking in or out of tanking stance? What about tanks who drop tanking stance regularly when no tank busters are coming? How do you factor in choosing to use active mitigation instead of damage/enmity? You need to establish a baseline to compare, but that baseline isn't going to mean a thing in many situations.
EDIT: Also, the questions you actually asked in the OP about the specific formulas are answered out there somewhere. I've seen them before, but that was pre-3.0, so I don't know how things changed, but the new formulas are out there somewhere. They have to be if people have stat weights calculated. Dervy's site has some.
I just looked up a few, but couldn't find maths for heals. A few useful things: Each point of Skill Speed increases your DoT DPS by about half as much as a point of DET. 600 DET is about a 7.5%-8% increase in damage, where 700 would be closer to 8.75%-10%. The Crit formula has been calculated to be: crit chance = ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+0.05 (multiply that by 100 to get a percent). The crit damage buff formula is the same thing, but add 1.4 (140%) to the result (so, crit damage = ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+1.45)
Is that the sort of thing you wanted? -
10-03-2015, 08:19 AMSaccharinThe only tank stat you have is parry and apprently it's not so desirable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizerak
Healing you have det, spell speed and crit. Determination is basically a weak Mind, spell speed increases your casts and crit gives bonus healing and larger bonus heals. Personally I think crit is a bad thing considering you don't want rely on a crit to save someone although I think scholars might use it for a proc. -
10-03-2015, 08:44 AMAnubis_Nephthys
Keep checking the Dervy page. He'll get around to maybe the tank stat weights.
Probably never healer stay weights -
10-03-2015, 05:10 PMLemuriaI'm hoping someone smart can do some testing though, especially since spell speed now apparently affects regen spells. It's hard to separate the Mind from the spell speed when it comes to testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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10-03-2015, 05:49 PMVandrilIt seems somewhat simple to me. Since all(?) spells have their potency listed, we know their comparative...potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
- Test the healed amount of both the regen spell and the direct healing spell twice; once naked, and once with a single gear piece that has both MND and Spell Speed but does not have DET. Make sure to record the results.
- Take the potency of a regen spell and divide it into the potency of a direct healing spell. We'll call the result "value P".
- Find the difference between the amount healed from the direct healing spell when you were naked and when you were wearing the gear piece. That difference is how much healing the increased MND from the gear piece added to your healing spell. Let's call this difference "value D"
- Divide value D by value P. The result of this division will be the amount of healing increase your regen spell gains per tick from the MND on your gear piece. Let's call this "value R".
- Find the difference between the amount healed per tick from your regen spell when you were naked and when you were wearing the gear piece. Call this "value T".
- Subtract value R from value T. The result is the amount of healing that your Spell Speed from the gear piece increased your regen spell's healing. Call this value "N".
- Divide value N by the number of Spell Speed you gained on your gear piece. The result will be the increase to a regen spell's healing ticks per spell speed rating. Assuming the stat increases healing at a steady rate (not exponentially), then this result should be valid.
Here's an example with nonsense numbers that I pulled out of my arse:
Step 1: Potency & Healing Record, Spell Speed Gained
Direct Potency: 400
Direct Heal w/o Gear: 800
Direct Heal w/ Gear: 865
Regen Potency: 40
Regen Heal w/o Gear: 80
Regen Heal w/ Gear: 88
Spell Speed On Gear Piece: 10
Step 2: P = Direct Potency / Regen Potency
P = 400/40 = 10
Step 3: D = Direct Heal w/ Gear - Direct Heal w/o Gear
D = 865 - 800 = 65
Step 4: R = D / P
R = 65 / 10 = 6.5
Step 5: T = Regen Heal w/ Gear - Regen Heal w/o Gear
T = 88 - 80 = 8
Step 6: N = T - R
N = 8 - 6.5 = 1.5
Step 7: Regen Heal Per Spell Speed Rating = N / Spell Speed On Gear Piece
Regen Heal Per Spell Speed Rating = 1.5 / 10 = 0.15
Results: From this example that uses fake numbers
Each spell speed rating grants 0.15 healing to each tick of your 40-potency regen spell. To find out the spell speed's effect per potency, simply divide 0.15 by 40.
Now, I'll admit I'm a bit exhausted, so I may be missing some fundamental point of math, here. But it should work something like the above.
Edit: Oh, and I'm not sure how DET plays along with Spell Speed's healing increase, so I'd avoid a weapon that has DET on it as well, when testing this. It's not likely, but it's possible that Spell Speed might "double dip" from DET's increase to healing. - Test the healed amount of both the regen spell and the direct healing spell twice; once naked, and once with a single gear piece that has both MND and Spell Speed but does not have DET. Make sure to record the results.
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10-06-2015, 02:38 AMNyaliaFor damage spells, each point of Spell Speed increases DoT damage by half as much as a point of DET. I don't see why healing would be much different. Assume that every two points of Spell Speed increase a HoT by about as much as one point of DET.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
In other words, it's a minimal boost to a small subset of spells, essentially negligable for stat comparison purposes. It's definitely something, but it doesn't change that DET is better for making your skills stronger consistently, Crit is better for making them stronger randomly (and if you have special things that trigger off of Crit), Spell Speed is better for getting them off more often, and PIE is better for being able to go longer before running out of MP.
That said, Crit increases your average damage/healing more than DET, but it's less consistent. Also, Spell Speed's benefits are mitigated by the fact that you are still limited by MP. Thus, Spell Speed is still one of the least desirable stats for healers overall, and since consistency is important, DET is more desirable than Crit for healers. Unless you get special benefits from Crit (like SCH does), in which case Crit is more desirable than DET.