Shadow wall needs an additional effect.

Sentinel - 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds.
Vengeance - 30% damage reduction for 15 seconds + counter physical damage.
Shadow wall - 30% damage reduction for 10 seconds.

All 3 min recast. Edit: vengeance is 2 min recast. Making it stronger than shadow wall with 1 min less on the recast.

Shadow wall is weaker than sentinel and has no extra effect like vengeance, yet has the same recast time. Why does shadow wall not get an extra effect? Maybe drains 50% of damage recieved as hp or restores mp equivalent to all damage taken when the effect wears off, or maybe make it add a reflect effect for magical damage?

Disagree. You can't simply compare a single abilities that make for a tank's whole kit, unless you want every class to literally be the same with minor differences.

For instance, you give them a stronger Shadow Wall on top of the fact they can essentially have 30% magic mitigation every minute for DA+Dark Mind? You're skirting into territory that would make the class hard to balance.

It's worse than you think, vengeance is 2min recast.

20% of damage taken after reduction to MP? Full pool on a tank buster.

I think wall should be lower recast to boost DRK physical defence and Vengance should be 3 mins.

Maybe 90s Dark Mind for 2min shadow wall and Vengance to 3 mins?

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Originally Posted by carbonx

Disagree. You can't simply compare a single abilities that make for a tank's whole kit, unless you want every class to literally be the same with minor differences.

For instance, you give them a stronger Shadow Wall on top of the fact they can essentially have 30% magic mitigation every minute for DA+Dark Mind? You're skirting into territory that would make the class hard to balance.

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This would be a fair point if I was asking for it to be made 40% reduction, more like sentinel, but i'm asking for it to get an additional effect, more like vengeance, which doesn't have to be something to make it any more defensive it could just be something that adds some extra utility.

And I'd say it is fair to look at the cooldown individually when it comes to comparing it to other cooldowns, if raging strikes was 80 seconds like blood for blood without the increased damage taken, you know other damage dealers would raise an eyebrow.

DRK already have -20% damage taken from Grit stance (same as PLD with Shield Oath)

WAR dont have any kind of reduced damage taken while on Defiance.

So even if Vengeance looks more powerful, in fact it's not really the case.
Different tank styles, different abilities.
Live with it.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

WAR dont have any kind of reduced damage taken while on Defiance.

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Inner beast wants a word with you.

Besides its been mathed out that the 25% hp increase and extra healing recieved effect on defiance makes it about equivalent to shield oath.

I meant as a passive buff if that wasnt clear >_>

Inner beast does have it's limitations as well since you need to build up 5 stacks of wrath AND have a target to attack, which is not always the case, and it only lasts 6 seconds.

Grit and Shield Oath is just press a button and you have 20% dmg reduction all the freaking time

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Inner beast wants a word with you.

Besides its been mathed out that the 25% hp increase and extra healing recieved effect on defiance makes it about equivalent to shield oath.

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It is fairly obvious that for spell cures the EHP is the same, 1.25 vs 1/0.8
WAR has a trivially small lower level of effective healing for magic (1 vs 1.2/1.25), which gets lost in overhealing.

Inner beast is the most powerful long term defensive cool down in the game, it puts rampart and shadowskin to shame with almost double uptime. In fact WARs low recasts give it rivalling long term physical mitigation with PLD and magical with DRK. Better in both cases if the WAR uses path.

I have Mathed this out and plan on uploading the spreadsheet after fine tuning.

I am not so worried about the class balances.

DRK tanks fine with shadowwall being a bit worse.

Would like it to be 15 seconds long instead of 10 seconds to compensate (or really, so I stop using it too early).

But comparing them between classes is pointless. Whether or not you have a valid point (you don't, not really) people will constantly tell you "the kit is not one ability".

When in reality the tanks are so homogenized almost every ability has a 1 to 1 corresponding talent lol.

@MeeYow Keep in mind that with how the meta works, you will more often than not have less IB uptime due to the existence of Deliverance and Fell Cleave whereas Rampart and Shadowskin are unaffected if ShO/Grit is on or not. Regardless, please finish that spreadsheet soon!

On topic: Perhaps Shadow Wall could instantly restore 50/75/100% of a Dark Knight's MP? Give it a situationally powerful effect in which a DRK could trade it out for the giant MP Heal when it is not needed. Careless usage naturally will punish the DRK and we may see a surge of lolDrks but balance should never be made for mediocrity.