1.Change cross class "Raise" to be able to use in battle.
2.Allow Shield and Sword Oath to not interrupt combos, while taking the GCD off both Oaths.
3.Change Royal Authority's Potency from 340 to 390.
4.Reduce mp cost of Clemency by 3/4 of the current cost, and decrease the cast time to 2 seconds and the recast to 2.5 seconds.
5.Sheltron renders you impervious to the next physical or magic attack. Recover 28% of your total mp, but increase the cool down to 200 seconds.
Tell me what you think?
Just 5 simple changes for Paladin.
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09-09-2015, 06:21 AMRubytoeJust 5 simple changes for Paladin.
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09-09-2015, 06:52 AMShining_Tiger_Excalibur
1. At the risk of interfering with how summoner can do this I'd elect not to be able to do that.
2. Single handedly the most requested change in almost every single forum thread so that's an absolute yes.
3. While I do agree it needs a potency increase (along with multiple other skills,) I'm going to have to remove myself from suggesting a number since it's on Square's shoulders to do this. If I did suggest a number I'd only be provoking the community into arguing about it.
4. I can sort of see myself wanting this as well, but I think Clemency is good in it's current state. I find myself wanting Riot Blades MP restore ability double though; the reason for that is I have to do a minimum of two Riot Blades just to get back enough MP to change tank stances. Although, I'm also fine with Riot Blades MP restore staying the same (it's on me to know the rhythm of the fight and when and where to stance change.) With that in mind, if I mess up, it's only fair that I should be punished.
5. Surprisingly I'm sorta' okay with sheltron staying the way it is with exception of maybe making it so that it reduces damage taken for roughly 5 seconds. I seem to remember seeing people say that in A3s this ability is nearly worthless even on the add you're supposed to use it for since an auto attack triggers it. On this matter, also, I can't specify the percentage it should reduce, for the same reasons above. -
09-09-2015, 07:02 AMRubytoe
Yea, i agree with the Mp increase on riot blade. Can't believe i did not think of that. They should increase it by a lot in my opinion.
About the first one, I did not really think about the other jobs that can actually cross skill with conj. A summoner or, black mage using raise in battle should not happen. Maybe when they raise the level cap again, and jobs get more skills, I hope paladins can use a Raise skill of some sort. I only posted a reasonable number for RA is because, I put in mind that warriors have Fell Cleave(500 potency), and thought RA should NOT be close to that. Since Warriors have to work for that 500 potency rather than 1..2..3... for RA. -
09-09-2015, 07:14 AMShining_Tiger_ExcaliburYeah I definitely get what you mean. Lots of room for improvement in more than just a few places; I think that's something everyone can agree on and not just us Paladins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubytoe
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09-09-2015, 09:20 AMMarxam
1. Great to have but in reality you should not be dying needlessly, meaning this would see little use outside of people messing up for no reason.
2. Basically a clone of WAR stances. So much for trying to make classes feel unique and different.
3. 340 is really strong especially when you compare it to BB which is 280.
4. I actually agree with this however I think the reason why its so expensive is because its a cure 2 + synastry all in one. Would be nice to use it more than 2 times before going oom though so anything to increase the usage of this skill gets my vote.
5. I think its fine as is. 30 seconds is ridiculous when you consider it an instant block. Worst case scenario it mitigates a strong auto attack. Best case scenario it mitigate a physical tank buster like Death Sentence and its up EVERY 30 seconds.
I have all 3 tanks at 60 and imo PLD seems to be the most boring. You're either doing your RoH combo or RA combo with GB occasionally. While all three tanks do this DRK can augment combos with DA and parry procs and WAR feels much like a dps, maintaining Maim, SE up 100% while putting SP up for big dmg and performing your perfect 3 FC berserk rotation. The niche it's supposed to have as the "party's shield" in 3.0 is not translating too well so here are some changes I would like to see in addition to the enmity buff RoH and Flash really needs.
1. Cover now blocks magic damage in addition to physical damage. Duration reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.
2. Hallowed ground effect now happens at the start of the animation instead of the end.
3. Tempered Will reduced from 180 seconds to 120 seconds.
4. Sheltron recovers 50 tp in addition to mp. Mp recover remains unchanged. -
09-09-2015, 10:19 AMNektulos-Tuor1. Sure, but I would raise the cost to also require all of your TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubytoe
2. No, I would make it where you could not switch stances in combat as a paladin. However I would make the choices better.
3. Sure, as long as the cost is raised to 120 TP for the attack.
4. Sure.
5. I think this actually makes it worse. -
09-09-2015, 11:27 AMShurrikhan
1. Doesn't seem necessary or especially fitting. Not horrible imbalancing either, but we already offer far more support than other tanks through being able to Protect the recently raised and through Clemency.
2. Something else to minimize the longterm-cost of the stances, please. Otherwise DRK will follow shortly and every stance-dance will be the same.
3. No. The gap between it and Rage of Halone is already too large for OTs, making the StrDown painful to maintain in the hands of dps-happy PLDs. (Whether that's an oxymoron and should be ignored is up to you.) Simply increase the enmity modifier on Savage Blade (to ~3.85) and Rage of Halone (to ~5.25), and increase Rage of Halone potency to 280 and we will be better able to actually use Royal Authority.
4. The max casts from full mana bar isn't our main issue. It's mana regeneration. Even if we spam Goring Blade for the Riot Blade MP component, it's a slow process. We need more mana gains. That said, for this to not typically be excessive (1) Clemency would have to actually be usable in a Savage-esque raid setting and even while MT, (2) there would likely need to be other ways to spend mana, and (3) this final version of mana spending and restoration would have to refrain from overlapping with DRK.
5. I'd rather just allow blocks work on Magic as well (even if at half block value or so) when under the effect of a blocking CD (Shelltron, Bulwark) and for Shelltron to scale its CD with shield type or else count every Shelltron use as if done by a tower shield. (Preferably the latter, as not to leave us scampering for the best fight-tuned shield.) If a boss is using a mixture of weak auto-attacks between magic tankbusters, the timing alone should keep the revised Shelltron roughly in check, and vs-magic scaling can take care of the rest. Without some effect on magic though, pure mage enemies leave us feeling two abilities short. (Though the same could be said of Dark Dance and Foresight.)
What I'd like to see:
1. Skill Speed and Spell Speed combined.
2. Savage Blade enmity modifier increased to 3.75x. Rage of Halone enmity modifier increased to 5.25x. Rage of Halone potency increased to 270. Shield Swipe potency increased to 220 and TP cost reduced to 30.
3. Shelltron changed to Sacred Aegis. Now also allows you to target an ally to place its blocking mitigation over them. CD scales with shield type. Mana regain applies also to the allied block. Animation revised.
4. You can now block magic attacks at 50% effect while affected by a blocking CD (Sacred Aegis, Bulwark)
5. Clemency provides additional temporary shielding every .5 seconds until the cast is complete, improving the chances of your target still being there (alive) when you finish the 3-second cast.
6. Cover can be toggled off via its original key, and toggled back on across its duration. CD decreased by up to 33% based on time spent toggled off (25% CD reduction at 50% of time off). Range increased by 6 yalms, but damage transfer now scales based on proximity (100% at 6 yalms or less from target). Now also grants 30% reduced damage taken from non-targeted magic attacks and intercepts up to 50% of magic damage.
7. Riot Blade now has variable mana gains and damage. It now deals up to 240 potency at 75% mana at higher, but deals as little as 180 potency at 0% mana. [240 potency at 75%, 220 at 50%, 200 at 25%.] In exchange, when under 75% mana, it now returns 20% of your missing mana in addition to its normal amount.
8. Oath-swapping revised. Each is now a charged ability (up to 2.5 seconds after animation starts) that provides short-term buffs, improved slightly and especially extended by charge time, in addition to its normal effects. Charge time, and thereby rate of bonus gains, scales with Speed.
Just what comes to mind.- Sword Oath provides a burst of Speed of up to 33% (18% + 3% per .5 seconds), fading over the duration to half effect at the duration's end, for up to 13 seconds (5 + 1.6 seconds per .5 seconds), starting from your next weapon-skill. [Exact numbers to be revised.]
- This sounds complicated, much like many WoW effects if the devs actually included more than vague descriptions on those certain abilities, but the idea is that the cast continues to be, in its own right, just short of a worthwhile, proportionate expenditure. It accelerates enough duration for 3 moves by just short of a third, for four by just short of a fourth, etc., etc. This allows you to take better advantage of Sword Oath 'windows of opportunity'. In other words, it minimizes the cost of stance-dancing to very little, but it does not encourage stance dancing just for the sake of its buffs.
- To make the finish of a good stance-dance feel even more satisfying, Shield Oath also provides a small absorb effect (75 potency + 10 potency per .5 seconds, based on AP) and grants bonus Defense up to 10% (5% + 1% per .5 seconds) for up to 13 seconds (5 + 1.6 seconds per .5 seconds), starting from the end of charge/cast. [Exact numbers to be revised.] The Shield Oath swapping bonus effect has an internal cooldown, and will require 30 seconds to regain its full strength, scaling with Speed.
- This one has a bit smaller of a difference. Essentially, if a PLD has sufficient mana and time, they will use the full charge.
- These bonus effects will require a second mana cost from their respective Oaths. The bonus effect will cost an additional 10% of your base maximum mana, and an additional 3% per .5 seconds charging. In both cases, it has at the core been reduced to an oGCD, but rather than simply throw on a 10-second cooldown and remove the combo-loss, it includes a way to bring back that GCD-level delay optionally, through the use of a charge system, and costs in terms of mana. This should help to give it a bit more uniqueness and tacticality while sating demands for stance-dance immediacy and ease of use and for balancing out stance-dance costs against other tank jobs (rather than WAR being without cost and DRK having only half the cost of PLDs, apart from the massive Grit MP cost).
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09-09-2015, 11:30 AMSpookyGhost
I still say give PLD a gun.
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09-09-2015, 12:42 PMShining_Tiger_ExcaliburNo offense.....but you might have a leg to stand on if Cleric Stance didn't function the exact same way on all three healers. Split hairs all you want, Paladin stances function in no way like Warrior stances because we pay MP for ours while yours is on its own cooldown. Not at all similar because I have to worry about MP consumption (i.e. Riot Blade needing to be used twice, severely hampering combat flow and dps,) whereas you have to worry about its cooldown timer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
In the interests of fairness, I'm also going to assume if the stances are taken off GCD I'd still lose my combo (which I actually encourage because it's on me to know the rhythm of the encounter.) So not only would I need to use Riot Blade twice, I'd also have to start my aggro/dps rotation over again whereas all Warriors have to do is click the button (since you already don't lose combos or require mp.) -
09-09-2015, 12:59 PMpouncing
the only things that need to be done in regard to PLD are these:
1. remove the costs of stances. they are still on the GCD but have zero mana cost (same should be done to grit imo)
2. increase savage blade and RoH's enmity modifiers to 3.8 and 5.5 respectively.
3. allow Sheltron (and only sheltron) to block magic damage.
4. make clemency grant a sure cast effect so that it cannot be interrupted.
This would still give PLD its niche of a lot of physical mitigation while giving a decent amount a magic mitigation and increased DPS by allowing them to use RA more often. This also keeps DRK relevant by keeping PLD at lower DPS and still slightly more vulnerable to magic attacks. with these changes you would probably have to alter DRK (give them a higher parry rate but thats about it).
PLD isnt broken its just a bit weak. their shield has a whole to be filled, but they arnt in hospice.