Don't you think the different between Def of Pld/War is so little compare to dps?

So far, anything that Pld can handle, is also proven that War can handle.
Pld HG is better than War HG, but Pld HG has 2x cool down longer, so War can use more often.

their buff are very similar, as Pld has Sentinel, but War has less cool down and more buff to cover himself. In the end, their defensive power is on par.

Then why the different between dps of a War and a Pld is so big ? I think that if War always keep up to Pld on defensive then Pld suppose to keep up to War on offensive also!

(War DPS can go up to 900 on 2 min dummy.)

Happy that Pld got some more dmg skills, but then I heard War get even better ones to make more different than before so the gap on dps become larger while the gap on defend buff remain the same.

I do not mind the different, but I think the different between dps should be the same as different between survivability. If War has so much dps more than Pld, then Pld should have so much survivability than War. If Pld has only little survivability than War, then War should have only little more dps than Pld.

Oh another one of these threads. For crying out loud.

Okay, so you want WAR to be unable to handle some fights since it does slightly more DPS than PLD? Then why not change WAR icon from blue to red and call it "DPS".

If a tank cannot tank all fights, there is no point of it being a tank. PLD still takes hits better than WAR. The fact that healers need to heal the PLD less than WAR is proof enough.

Hallowed Ground is 5 times better than Holmgang. It having twice the CD is still unfair.

PLD DPS isn't so low, it's only 8% less than WAR.

Also you only parse 900 on a dummy? Your WAR has a serious case of gitgud. Also check this video.

What DPS skills are you talking about? WAR should've always had Deliverance. WAR was supposed to be the DPS tank since 2.1, but PLD had Sword Oath and WAR had nothing. What gap are you talking about? Are you saying WAR did more DPS than PLD in 2.5? Because that's not true, PLD in Sword Oath did the same or more DPS than WAR without Defiance.

WAR's strongest attack before 3.0 was Inner Beast (300 potency) and WAR couldn't use it when it tried to DPS (by dropping Defiance). Now instead of having WAR use such a strong defensive ability while DPSing, (if WAR used IB in Deliverance, there is no point in having Defiance), they gave WAR a stronger attack (Fell Cleave) with no defensive effects.

This thread is so full of wrong and should just die. Honestly.

Everytime i peek into a tank debate, there you are phoenicia lol

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Originally Posted by wolfhaken

Everytime i peek into a tank debate, there you are phoenicia lol

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Because it's getting ridiculous.

I mean look at this guy! He wants there to be situations where ONLY Paladin can defend but the other tanks should literally die because they do 70 more DPS! I mean I would understand that if WAR and DRK could fill the same spot of actual DPS classes. But they don't! As long as WAR and DRK tags and icons are blue (tanks) they should be able to tank ALL things in all situations as long as they can get heals.

In reality though most of the expert players can play their tank roles as DPS and put out better numbers than DPS.

Im stating this because the general population flock to DPS roles because they dont have to learn much. While the veterans play more than one class to learn the ins and outs of other classes they play with, wether it be them or another player, when it comes down to it all these Tank forums are really about player skill vs player skill, of set roles.

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Originally Posted by wolfhaken

Everytime i peek into a tank debate, there you are phoenicia lol

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My thoughts exactly! Lol though always welcome :p

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Because it's getting ridiculous.

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Your percentage of difference between a Paladin DPS and Warrior DPS is incorrect. There is greater than 8% difference. You may rely on smacking a dummy for three minutes but a PLD will fizzle out very fast in a longer fight while the Warrior has little trouble maintaining TP.

At the end of the fight the final numbers will be much greater than 8%. People keep throwing out these weird percentages, 5%, 8%, without basis. But you really need to look at the final figures for a Savage encounter. If the difference was so minimal, people wouldn't care what tanks they brought in world firsts groups.

I can only really see a PLD fizziling out if there is a consistent up time. Haven't done savage, but normal mode there are quite a few battle phase switch times where PLD's have a fuck ton of time to regain their TP. But I'd still want Shield swipe to get off GCD. Lower potency and restore a small bit of TP with each use for more MT damage and consistent up time while being MT.

Check out this a3 sav kill video the pld is pulling awesome dps because thanks to his superior defense which is coming from his shield and good timed shelltron use he can way easier tank the dmg thrown at him in sword oath than war or drk could do in deliverance/outside of grit. Also about the tp problems everyone always complains about in most fights due to downtimes this isnt even an issue and even if it is this is still a team game you are not alone inside the battles.

Square screwed up on tanks. Their idea behind tanks post lvl 60 is that you'll have three different type of tanks. One that mitigates a lot more on physical fights and another one on magical fights. And then the last one that takes more damage into the face but instead of mitigating correctly, does more damage. Warrior is still a tank and that would be beyond stupid if there was a certain encounter where a job wouldn't be able to clear.

Square tried to let groups decide between damage and utility. If you take paladin then you'll have an easier time dealing with physical damage while having some cool utility and if you pair it up with a dark knight any encounter will significantly be easier to heal through. However your overall group dps will be slighty lower because you chose the path of utility and mitigation. If you pick up a warrior you'll have more damage but instead you'll miss out on some mitigation which can be great for healers.

But in reality it doesn't work that way. Since any tank can clear any encounter, the extra utility you'll get with a paladin will never be worth the extra damage a warrior brings. The dps check is ridiculous. Back then on coil you were never ask as a healer or a tank to dps on the first two turns because the damage brought by the dps was clearly enought. I cleared T6/T7, T10/T11 two weeks after their release and there wasn't this pressure on tanks and healers because of DPS check if every DPS was pulling their weight. The DPS check would become a problem after those turns. T8 led people to solo tank it, and T12 was much harder the less dps you had.

Right now every job has to DPS if they can. Tanks have to drop their tanking stance so they can do more dps and healers have to deal with that while still doing DPS. So your paladin or you dark knight are for sure better at mitigating but since you'll want to meet DPS check it doesn't matter since they'll drop their flat 20% damage reduction. By doing so they're as hard to heal as a warrior because the warrior's tanking stance is only effective when healed.

You can brag as much as you want about paladin having more utility but in fact these utility spell will not make or break an encounter, DPS will. Paladins can help out healers on A1 for preys with Clemency, divine veil and stoneskin but no matter what happens they'll still have to heal their target twice. On the other hand Warriors can be really interesting to have even if your group doesn't have a ninja. The damage provided by tanks are gonna be boosted by a margin. Storm Path is not mandatory but since healers have to dps it can be helpful at times.

In perfect situations the dps difference between tanks is not huge but in reality a warrior pulls out a lot more while still being able to maintain tank capabilities. As current clears rely heavily on DPS, you can't blame people for not wanting extra utility instead of DPS.

I think everyone should play the job they like because by loving your role/job you'll be able to be more efficient. Also Square always balanced things out so you shouldn't switch to another "OP" job like a lot of people apart if you're an hardcore raider and are looking for early clears. But as of right now there is no reason to not bring a warrior to your party, but no one should feel forced to play it if they prefer to play paladin for example. And as people get gear DPS will not be that important.