Why is standard decided to be 4 people, while 8 is decided as 'hard mode'? Couldn't all content that's instanced be scaled to suit both sizes?
Mission fights should not be treated as second rate nonsense to get at the goodies. Mission fights in the past, while not dropping gear, were treated as big achievements. I don't see why the mission fight and the 'hard mode' fight can't be treated equally.
So I pose this question:
In the future, why can't missions and hardmode battles alike have scaled content geared towards both Lite-Parties (4 members) and Full-Parties (8 members)?
The Ifrit mission battle in the translation at least seems to be treated as a nuisance to be cleared before you can get at the actual content. Is this true, and can we expect all future missions to be treated as 'easy mode'?
I liked feeling a sense of accomplishment with missions but in XIV they fall super flat as though no effort to making them challenging was put forth. Not everyone who plays as a casual character wants things /that/ easy.
So I'm going to wait to comment later after the patch goes live, so it's not really a matter of how difficult it is ( as we don't know ) but more of a question along the lines of why the arbitrary numbers set to the party system for missions and is it not possible to have both?
This would greatly improve the game in the long run to both cater to large groups and new players who don't know many people (therefore being able to choose the option for 4 people, instead of maxing everything out at 8)
Same for the endgame hard mode. It is not always possible to find enough people for Darkhold, so can't the bosses within be scaled in future updates to suit both groups?
I'm not asking for a drop in difficulty or level of the monsters within, but for the content to be scaled to suit each group.
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10-05-2011, 04:17 AMOscillate_WildlyWhy is the Ifrit Mission fight geared towards 4 people, and not also a full party?
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10-05-2011, 04:23 AMMushy
Lots of changes are going to be happening over the next few patches, I imagine this is temporary until battle system and attribute and jobs are fixed. And to also see how people party(dont think they arent reading the publics battle logs)
Future instance/bosses will probably have a proper algorithm to scale proper -
10-05-2011, 04:24 AMFiosha_Maureiba
My outlook on this is that, you have the final boss, but he's meant to be "beatable" so that more players can experience the story.
But if you want the crazy extra challenge, insane min-maxing, greater rewards, and other stuff, you get ready to fight the Emerald Weapon, Omega Weapon, Death on the Clock Tower, Sephiroth in the Coliseum, etc.
edit: It almost feels like your post grew in length while I was typing this. I guess it depends on the type of scaling. And even then, might be harder to balance out, since would scaling only involve increased HP? Or would it increase the boss's stats, thus lowering the party's effectiveness, and making calculations across different level ranges even more difficult? -
10-05-2011, 04:25 AMAva
"Normal" mode is designed for a mid level group (R25? Or maybe it was R35) whereas "hard" mode is designed as a raid for R50+. It's not actually normal and hard mode, think of it more as story mode and farm mode. farm mode being the R50, because as far as I'm aware, the story Ifrit doesn't really drop anything unless everyone is from the same company. But that last part is just speculation.
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10-05-2011, 04:26 AMMushy
I think there should also be a final boss for the story which while isnt easy mode - SHOULD be clearable with enough practice from casuals. There should be side bosses like ultimate weapon(example) which is hard mode. And it will come. Right now hes getting as much content to as much people
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10-05-2011, 04:27 AMMuruganThe majority of people who want solo or light content also want easier content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
The majority of people who want full group/alliance content want harder content.
Unfortunately that is the breakdown of the majority of the community and so they cater to each crowd. There are a few people who enjoy small group and solo content which is challenging, and for them they have the option of undermaning content designed for larger groups.
Hopefully though they eventually add in some Maat like fights for solo play which are difficult and soloable (and same for small party). I just wouldn't expect the casual crowd to rally behind the cause. -
10-05-2011, 04:28 AMOscillate_Wildly
The final boss should be beatable I agree but difficulty shouldn't be sacrificed to artificially make players feel good.
In other words, I hope future mission battles live up to their preprocessor online and offline in difficulty and don't follow the precedent set by past XIV missions. I think there was one with a few Amaljah and basically there were about 5 of them but they died within or under 10 minutes and that's hardly what I call difficulty.
Not that Ifrit is the same thing. But the precedent has been set.
And yes the hardmode option should be there but in the future what I'd like to see is an equal balance of both content mission and out of mission for lite parties and full parties.
meaning missions for 4 and 8 player groups, and after-mission 4 and 8 party groups, scaled properly to the amount of players present. I hope it's temporary. Viewing 4 players as 'soft core' is a bit...Hm. Which is what this thread is really all about. Not just Ifrit but plans for future balancing of content. D: -
10-05-2011, 04:31 AMOscillate_Wildly
Although this isn't exclusively about how hard the content is. If you read deeper, it's about the number of people who can clear it.
While it's nice that missions require only 4, and it might max out at 4, doesn't mean the entire community wants to split up into so many small groups. It should be that there is an option to clear with 8 and an option to clear with 4. They've already started doing this with the instanced timed raids so I don't see why missions should be any different.
And I think right now I'd classify as a casual player who plays maybe once or twice a month lately and I'd like hard as butt content all up in my missions so I feel like I've earned whatever achievement it is for getting so far. To make all missions achievable with little to no effort (READ: MISSIONS) is a horrible way to view progress in this game. -
10-05-2011, 04:33 AMMuruganSome people think that to make missions any harder would be restrictive to certain players. My hope is that through the job system they add in quests/missions which require some amount of challenge since that entire system is geared towards grouping and does not have to cater to casual (mean proponents of easy mode) players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
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10-05-2011, 04:37 AMOscillate_WildlyNah my post didn't grow. Scaling I think would involve all those things, including the difficulty of handling any friends he may bring along. Kind of like how the new partying system involves mobs calling for help based on party size (or did I read that wrong?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba
Over all perhaps, with less people beating on him, it might spawn fewer incidents of spammed TP moves and range of effect or damage dealt.
But if they can scale it up to fit 8 people for a hardmode version they can do some tweaks to allow both groups of 4 and 8 to attack the mission.
I have quite a few people in my LS, I know we'd all love to tackle the mission together but alas we cannot as it is limited to 4 people. That's great for players who want it done faster but for slightly bigger groups who might want a bonus challenge? Could try the 8 player full-mode for the mission.
It's the only way I can see to avoid dropping min-max all together on party requirements. 4 is nice again for small groups or players who are 'casual' but the thing is not just casuals are clearing the missions.
Missions shouldn't be treated as casual bullcrap to plow through to get to the hardmode dungeon. It kind of defeats the purpose of having it if it's just going to be treated as easy mode. D: