Why is it so hard to find people to clear Alexander Turn 4?

Especially on the Malboro, I rarely find people willing to do the final raids of any content.

Honestly being going at it for nearly two nights so far trying to clear the final part of the new raid content (I believe Turn 4 is the last one) and yet I can't find the right group to clear it. Whether I set up a PF for a Clear Run and we wipe mostly on Phase 2 or going through DF.

I've asked my FC a bunch of times and hardly anyone responds or wishes to do Turn 4 again (only one person said that and she came to help me despite not wanting to do it again).

During my last attempt I explained to the group about each of the mechanics so they know how to handle them when the time comes and three of them were brand new to it, which was two WHM and a BRD.

Honestly we were a little shaky at first but we got to Phase 2 which is where we died the first time because we didn't mention which of the three points we were covering and so some confusion led to many deaths. Also the laser beam lines, that too.

After the first wipe we corrected ourselves by adding in marks and telling everyone about splash damage and steer clear of everyone, especially the MT who kept on going after the orange bomb orbs when it should be OT to do that causing myself to take MT aggro and getting killed.

And people running into the same orange orb as well.

We managed to get a little further but people got caught up by the add's AoE attack and get two person hit hard and causing so problems until another wipe.

After that we managed to get to Phase 3 and down the boss to at least 64% of its HP before the MT went down and some of the DPS and one Healer went down and then cast WHM LB3 to save everyone (except the other Healer as the timing was too soon for him to be revived) and we didn't last long soon after as everyone was at Brink of Death state.

Thinking we did pretty good and we could do this... someone pulled up the "Vote Abandon" que and I was thinking... your kidding me? We manage to get this far that fast and you want to quit?

We didn't hit it up and continue once again, however we died in Phase 2 again... twice in a row. First time we have a rough time as both Tank and Healer died in Phase 1 as they weren't paying attention.

And the second time was the DPS were getting killed... namely me that time because my team didn't go after the laser line sight and I got all 3. I got revived... and I got tagged by the laser lines twice after that in row... all 3 lines on me.

And the adds piled on us and a wipe. I ask why not a single person grabbed one line off of me and someone stated they didn't have enough HP to save me and looked... mostly everyone had full HP.

And the Vote Abandon que up again and we disbanded.


It baffles me, this is an "easy" story mode raid and I can't find a suitable group to clear it like I did with Alex 1 - 3. Took a few tries after getting knocked down, but I managed to clear them in one group run. I know it's about as hard as the Extreme Primal fight, but I would think people would be able to get to Phase 3 a lot more than I've seen.

Here it's like some people don't finally understand the mechanics of this fight and panic a bit even when I've seen them doing it perfectly at times. I know they can't do it but one little mishap and the fight goes downhill apparently for whatever team I'm in.

I kinda wish I was here Day One when it first came up as I would've gotten the clear on Alexander as well but I was away for two days so I missed it.

It's mostly the Adds in Phase 2 and the Laser Lines that kills the groups I'm in and Phase 3 I'm not sure what's killing the other DPS and Healers as I'm away from MT on boss trying to look out for laser lines and AoE fields to dodge.

Eventually I'll clear it and I've gotten a lot of practice and experience in for this fight, but it's starting to wear me out.

For those of you who didn't clear it within the first group run, how long did it take you to clear Alexander 4?

I cleared in my static 2 nights ago and we've been farming it off and on ever since. Honestly, even if you do all the mechanics correctly, A4 is a huge healer check. If you don't do the mechanics correctly, it's a disaster. The best you can do is keep trying. If you run into people that consistently do mechanics wrong then replace them. There's nothing wrong with replacing someone that repeatedly fails to do what they've been instructed.

For what it's worth, my static has been having the healers get the orbs and just self-heal between impacts. MT uses Focus Target on the right leg and attacks the left leg, while standing between them under the boss. Anytime the blue stun resist buff disappears on either leg, the MT stuns that leg. OT is mostly just Quarantine bait and DPS. After both legs are destroyed, the MT stays on the left flank of the boss and picks up the adds that spawn next to them. DPS worry about the pickup on the other two adds. Healers stand on opposite sides of the room through the entire last phase because of the Judgement Nisi mechanic. MT needs to save cooldowns for Discoid - it gets tougher and tougher to heal through (sort of like Akh Morn). Honestly, if you're all on voice chat it makes this fight a lot easier since there is a lot of randomness to many of the mechanics. Communication is key.

I don't know, bud. In the FC I'm in, we help people to get through the content. I've got my first win on day 1 with my former static in Gilgamesh, then moved to Hyperion and got more clears there no problem. I don't know what kind of advice I can give here, but there's a small list:

-DF: Yes, it's a pain but it will match you with people from other servers in your Data Center. It's just matter of luck until you get a nice group to clear it. If you have a VoIP software, I'll suggest you to invite these people there to coordinate the group better.
-Make your own PF: And a lot of patience.
-LS: As an extent of the previous point, you can make a LS for the people you find through PF and create a "raiding LS". You fill ranks with the people there, where they can make their own static as well. Either that or join an existing one. Request further info in your server's subforum.
-Move to a different FC. Whenver you find they don't fit your playstyle or can't do things you really want to do, it's time to move to another FC. Unless you're too attached to them.
-Move to a different server. Gilgamesh and Ragnarok are good servers for raiding, as far as I know. I can tell you Gilgamesh is one of them for sure.

I give you this advice, not because I feel you won't clear this content, but because... if you can't find people for the easy mode... the savage mode will be a nightmare.

People apparently don't like doing normal dungeon shite like KILLING ADDS... Majority of wipes for me is because there's DPS and tanks that kill one add and then move onto the boss again...

Also, when someone decides to run right through me as WHM on phase 3...

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Snip

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Turn 4 has some annoying mechanics, I'm not surprised people don't want to deal with it after they've gotten their items for the week.

For the people that are new to it, it is rough, more so on the healers than any other class in my opinion. Going in to that fight healing for the first time is pretty brutal as there is just so much damage that must be healed through with almost none of it being avoidable.

In regards to the orange bomb orbs, your OT may have been dealing with the Quarantine phase where him and another dps get sent to a room to kill an add. It shouldn't just be up to the OT to take orbs though as it's near impossible for one person to get the 6 that spawn each time. I usually take three as OT and the healers usually deal with the other three.

People running to the same orange orb is bad communication and par for the course in a pug. Just have to keep trying until the group learns to play together. I know that sounds weird, to elaborate, raiding with another guild in a different MMO, me and the other tank needed to adjust to each other and eventually we could coordinate things like damage soaking without talking and he learned to trust me to pick things up rather than worrying about it himself. I don't expect a pug group to do the same, just a matter of people realizing "ok, he got those orbs last time, I don't need to worry about them" and so on.

The AOE attack from the adds is only if they don't die fast enough.

As to why your healer and dps went down, I think that has to do with the Manipulator's debuff which I'm still not exactly clear on how exactly it works. But I know it will kill/cause heavy damage while healing if the healer doesn't pay attention. Also, after the Manipulator casts Discoid he nails the tank he's targeting with an attack called Perpetual Ray. It has no cast time, no telegraph, no warning. But it's a hefty blast to the face that will wreck your tank instantly. I dealt with it in my clear with two paladin tanks by stacking cooldowns for the first one, other pally stacked cooldowns for the second, Holy Ground the 3rd (which completely negates the damage), had the other pally Holy Ground the fourth (once again negating the damage), and for the fifth I taunted off him and soaked some of the additional rays with my cooldowns that were up by then. Most people I've played with don't even know it happens, they just see themselves drop instantly.

For P2, make sure that the laser line people aren't standing near others, the damage splashes. Also with the adds, is remember that they stack a debuff on whoever they hit, if that debuff stack to 4 the person dies instantly, always. Another thing to remember in P2 is that the OT will be Quarantined for roughly 100% of the phase, P2 must be done assuming that you are always short one dps and the OT. In P3 what's most likely killing your healers is the Judgment debuff, if the dps are near them, they get the same debuff. If they get ticks from the debuff + lasers + orbs? They're dead, always. In my experience you should always use DPS LB3 to speed up that final phase. If your healers are coordinating and watching their HP and own debuffs, you should be fine, it's more important to get through that phase as soon as possible because that Perpetual Ray attack will annihilate your tanks combined with the absurd amounts of unavoidable splash damage that goes out.

I cleared A4 on the first day after roughly 5-6 hours of attempts. I have since cleared it a few times until I finally got my crank. All of my clears (except 1) were done with a WHM/SCH combo, the shield + burst healing is incredibly useful and I believe it is significantly more difficult for other combos to do. My non whm/sch clear was done with two whm's, however to help them out, while tanking the manipulator and watching his cast bars to prepare for Perpetual Ray, I was spamming stoneskin on the healers every GCD because of how quickly it fell off from the damage they were taking. I must have cast it on them 10-15 times each in that phase alone while tanking the boss and keeping my MP up with Riot Blade, it definitely made the difference since I mitigated about 12k-15k damage on them over the course of that last phase. I am definitely convinced that the fight favors pld tanks as well because of our self heal, mp restore, and cooldowns.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

MT needs to save cooldowns for Discoid - it gets tougher and tougher to heal through (sort of like Akh Morn). Honestly, if you're all on voice chat it makes this fight a lot easier since there is a lot of randomness to many of the mechanics. Communication is key.

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It is NOT Discoid which causes the damage, it's the follow up special attack after called Perpetual Ray.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

For those of you who didn't clear it within the first group run, how long did it take you to clear Alexander 4?

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Well, we saved the LB3 in the last phase for healers. (Not kidding :P)



Floor 4 is pretty rough on us healers and the variety of mechanics is built to screw us over. Someone doesn't kill an add quick enough / forgets it because the person asigned to it got sucked into the chute? It AOEs in our face repeatedly, we all die.
Someone runs into me while I got the murder all debuff? It spreads, all die. People aren't careful with balls? All die. OT dies in chute where we can't heal him? All die. And there are many more examples. The strain on healers in this fight is already pretty brutal since everything in there AOEs, any messups will most likely lead to wipes in the end, if only because of the MP strain. (raising people is just too expensive...) Effectively you need a PF group, stick with it for a couple runs until everyone learns what to do without major messups and you should be able to clear it. But on DF this will be as much of a nightmare as any of the coils was, really.

The majority of players are like, really really bad in dutyfinder. _Those few times you see a dps do their job perfectly you kinda want to hug them and tell them they are awesome.
And now add in some "harder mechanics" to people that can barely dodge in dungeons.
It took me 4 groups to beat floor 1 because it was so hard for them to understand how to move adds even if I told them, I put waymarks above the lazer.

My point is, we need an easier version of alexander so that those players that ruins the normal version dont join. They need a version where the only mechanic is to heal and dps

Mechanics, the people that are used to raiding aren't having that much trouble. May take a few wipes to figure out how to do thing right but they will get the clear.

But because Alexander is getting labeled as story mode/easy mode, you have people that used to avoid raiding/coil doing it now too. They aren't as used to handling mechanics and require much longer time to learn

Well my FC is a Raid FC, but it seems like most of the top raiders weren't on today... go figure. This is my third FC I've joined and because of them I got to Final Coil and cleared up to T11 at least. Haven't started T12 oe 13 yet.

Anyway did another A4 run with 4 others (who originally wanted to do Bismarck EX clear but not enough peeps) and manage to get the boss down to 31% though the Healer died and 2 DPS died (that was me and a DRG) and the Tanks were hurting and we had LB3. The other Healer didn't even USE it even though I called of it and I think one of the Tanks might of used it instead as the gauged emptied. That was the closest I've gotten, but this fight is brutal for an "easy" mode story raid. I can't imagine what Savage mode is going to be like.

I'll keep trying, there's decent people who know what to do and the more I willingly help to get through the fight the more the learn and the better they'll eventually become making it easier in return to beat and help other people get the hang out it. Practice makes perfect... I am stubborn, I'll keep at it until I clear it.

2 whm as healers is probably not the best for that fight. After downing this as a whm myself a few times, I find it much less difficult when I'm paired with an AST or a SCH.
The last phase is not too hard when you get used to it. Your healers just have to know when it's gonna start and be reactive at self-casting cures. They will get a debuff of 5 stacks (at 5 stacks, you lose 3/4k Hp every few seconds), and they have to top themselves back to 100% to remove one of the stacks. At 3 stacks - or even 4 if they have a good gear - they should have no trouble and can let the debuff die by itself.


Before this phase starts, everyone should get prepared to help the healers. Whoever has mantra should use it, healers should precast med II or any healing-over-time spells they have, they will hardly be able to cure anyone during the few seconds they'll be healing themselves.

Also, make sure the 2 healers face each other, if they get too close, it's instant-death for both when they have the "circle" target around them. More generally speaking, spread as much as possible, deal with adds fast.