Insects and Energies (Naming Convention Conflict?)

Hello, word-gods! It's Moose again. I was going to hold off asking this one for a while, but what the hay - it's been too quiet in here the last few days and maybe I'll catch one of you delightful voidsent when you need a break from putting all that 1.19 together. No pressure.

I'm a little confused with some mob names. I can't tell if there's:

• A mix-up with a naming convention,
• A wrongly assigned element,
• A single exception to what seems to be a general rule*

* That mob families share the same elemental affinity; For instance, moles all sharing earth affinity.

So, what's up with the glow-ball-fly-energy-THINGS?

Are the fireflies actually supposed to be lightning? The fact that Lightning Beetle is a fire mob is pretty goofy, but then again a Firefly being lightning would be just as bad. What's up?

This confusion extends far beyond the lowest tier. From what I can tell form trying to solve this mystery, fireflies, wisps, and plasmoids are all the same basic mob in different stages of growth. From what I can tell:

• Firefly mobs exist up to Rank 20, at which they become
• Wisps from between Ranks 20 to 40, and finally form into
• Plasmoids for Rank 40+.

Though they share virtually NO drops, they do share sets of offensive ablities. They all make use of the STELLAR FLAME ability. However, when fireflies become wisps, BLINDING BURST becomes INNERNOVA, which turns into HYPERNOVA when they turn into plasmoids. Also, across their lifespan, they slowly develop an arsenal of absorption techniques and magical spells, but suddenly at Rank 40, they switch elements.

Fireflies and wisps are both fire affinity, however plasmoids are lightning affinity. Is this on purpose?

I do understand that a hot enough flame will eventually turn into plasma, is that what's going on here? Assuming there is no error, if they are of the same mob family, does it have a name? If not, are fireflies, wisps, and plasmoids all still insects (vilekin)? Or does their evolution change their Class and/or Kingdom? The latter seems to be the case due to [item=10006103]firefly elytron[/item]s only falling off them before they go wisp.

I'm gonna light one of my campfires and hang around for a while. I'll probably reword this a bit ton as well. Forum community, feel free to (Help me out!) if you have some ideas.

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Unrelated: Mobs I Still Can't Place
Just in case you're really dying to keep looking at not-spreadsheet for a few more minutes

• Toad
• Salamander
• Elemental
• Hippogryph (Void? I'm saying void.)

I had a feeling someone might bring up this issue... Or, to put it more precisely, I had a feeling Anonymoose might bring up this issue :)

The LOC team is currently wrapping up work on 1.19 (implementing bug fixes, checking stuff on screen, getting the patch notes ready, etc.), but later this week I should have a few minutes of down time before the next wave of text crashes down upon us. I'll have a chat with the lore-masters and see if I can uncover the method behind their madness. Stay tuned!

/em throws some more logs on the fire and prepares Ferne a comfy seat.

I never thought I'd be excited about in-game fireflies - but they're quite an anomaly and pretty much anything that stands between me and being able to provide a reliable and informative bestiary for the Eorzeans requires further examination.

That, and the fact that these bugs may very well be born slightly glowy and with fire affinity, and yet grow into huge balls of energy that electrify anything they see (which means the mob not only transcends it's affinity, but possibly it's Class, and perhaps even Regnum)... that's worth some examination too :P

If you don't mind, I'd like to add one more example to clarify the second part of my question:

If Fireflies evolution into Wisps changes their class the first time, even though their element remains the same, and they are both still insects (vilekin), does that mean that there are mob classes that transcend their regular ones as subclasses? I noticed you referred to both "Coblyns" and "Doblyns" as examples of Soulkin once before - are they different classes? I thought they were just Coblyns with different names. Perhaps this is the case with Fireflies and Wisps?

Then, of course, there's still the plasmoid part of that from the first part of the question...

Anyway, thanks for taking the time out to let me know you'd set aside some free-time to settle the possible inconsistencies and let us know how it works. I'll have you know that the LOC team's insights are quoted ridiculously often in the General Discussions as evidence to lore debates ^u^

I'm keeping my word about that Chocobo by the way, I'll post a picture here once the update hits :D

i will be staying tuned. i can't wait to hear the answer to your little puzzle. if i was a betting man (which i am) i would do for lost in translation when it comes to the names being off with elements. but no idea why a family would just change element. can't wait to find out

Well, it's not only here...insects are mainly refered as fire and thunder elements due their natural characteristics...

Fire due insects that can cause poison burn and lightning due the parallel antennae/stings/horns working as opposite pole to geerate discharges between them. You can very often see these kind of creatures refered to these elements, not only here but in many other animes/games/movies. It's more like a common culture...maybe based or at least related to japanese folklore.

Sorry about the delay! The patch has been hectic (to put it lightly), and we've already been handed stuff for 1.19a and beyond (beyond...beyond...beyond...). /echo off

What I can tell you, though, is that a lot of exciting stuff on its way. Company quests start to reveal a lot about what is going on in the shadows and the Ifrit battle is quite epic. Ah, but I've gotten off track.

First off (alright, "second off") let me say that the lore-masters, myself included, are truly flattered by the interest you and many other users here in the forums have shown regarding the in-game lore. We understand that the LOC forum is probably not the best place to be releasing this info, as it can often be difficult to find, especially for those users who don't know to look here, as well as DE, FR, and JP users who might not be able to understand the posts even if they do manage to make their way here. Plans to expand the the Lodestone to include more lore-related articles are already underway, and your suggestions regarding in-game lore libraries have been relayed to the team. Until those plans come to fruition, however, you'll have to bear with me :)

Now, about those three creatures.

First let me start by clearing up the genus issue. The theory you threw out there, while a remarkably good one, landed a few yalms off target. The facts are a little less colorful, but far from boring (at least in my opinion).

The short answer: Fireflies are vilekin; wisps and plasmoids are voidsent.

The skinny: The three are in no way related, nor are they the same creature in different stages of development. It is mere coincidence that fireflies and wisps share the same elemental aspect, much in the same way that it is coincidence that some wavekin salamanders and scalekin drakes are both aspected to lightning.

Ah, but you are probably thinking that this does not explain why all three creatures use the same attack (Stellar Flame). It is widely known that special attacks are usually only used by members of the same genus. For example, though they are both of the same class (cloudkin), only apkallus use Yawn, while only hippogryphs use Shriek. Following this line of thinking, wisps and plasmoids should not be using the same techniques as fireflies. So what gives? Well, it has been noted that wisps (widely believed to be the spiritual remnants of long-deceased souls) and plasmoids (in some circles, thought to be unstable manifestations of lightning-aspected aether, in others, to be a by-product of Garlean magitek technologies, though most likely a combination of both) display only limited cognitive abilities, and react to their surroundings driven more by primitive inherent tendencies than complex reasoning. Using these observations as a foundation for their theory, certain scholars have formed the hypothesis that when wisps and plasmoids cross over into Eorzea from the void, they mistake the glowing fireflies of this world as brethren and instinctively begin emulating their actions, thus the similarities that we see between the species.

Now to answer your second question:

Coblyns and doblyns both fall under the kingdom (regnum) bloodborn, the class soulkin, and the genus coblyn, but are of a different species. I suppose you could liken them to lions and leopards on Earth. Both are of the same kingdom (Animalia), class (Mammalia), and genus (Panthera), but from there the branch splits.

Another example of this would be gigantoads and vodyanoi. Both fall under the kingdom of bloodborn, the class wavekin, and the genus gigantoad; however, as with the coblyns/doblyns, the two are of a slightly different species.

I'm going to leave questions of cross-breeding unanswered here, because that's a whole other can of worms. ;)

Just as a side note, it is common for many creatures in Eorzea to have the same genus and species name (as seen in the aforementioned coblyns and gigantoads). Early naturalists such as Frandelont Raimdelle (author of the Raimdelle Codex) are to blame for this.

I hope that helps! Now it's back to the Pits for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

The patch has been hectic (to put it lightly), and we've already been handed stuff for 1.19a and beyond (beyond...beyond...beyond...).

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I'm sorry to hear that :( May you and your teammates find a crate of energy drinks now, and some much needed rest between the 1.19[X]s and the next round of big changes later. (Very excited to see the future unfold if you're this excited about experiencing it via game-build alone!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

First off (alright, "second off") let me say that the lore-masters, myself included, are truly flattered by the interest you and many other users here in the forums have shown regarding the in-game lore. We understand that the LOC forum is probably not the best place to be releasing this info, as it can often be difficult to find, especially for those users who don't know to look here, as well as DE, FR, and JP users who might not be able to understand the posts even if they do manage to make their way here. Plans to expand the the Lodestone to include more lore-related articles are already underway, and your suggestions regarding in-game lore libraries have been relayed to the team. Until those plans come to fruition, however, you'll have to bear with me :)

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Lodestone Lore!? More in-game books!? Now there's awesome news. I'm glad to hear our lore-loving is well received. I've tried to be very careful about asking questions only when the information is seemingly missing, lost in translation, or unintentionally vague, as I'm pretty sure if this forum was flooded with spoiler requests and easily obtainable answers, questions like these wouldn't be so warmly read lol. ~ And no worries, we like bearing with you guys. "Making do" until there's Lodestone Lore would be an unforgivable understatement. :P

Now, responses about those three creatures.
Let's assume that I've nodded understandingly and taken notes up until I got to the part about Wisps and Plasmoids mistaking Fireflies for their kin and emulating them, even though Wisps may very well be departed souls and Plasmoids probably being magitek mutation of aether into an arguably semi-sentient force. I'm still understanding it, of course, but wow - that's 10x more interesting than my theory. I gladly relinquish it. This makes just as much sense and is much more fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Coblyns and doblyns both fall under the kingdom (regnum) bloodborn, the class soulkin, and the genus coblyn, but are of a different species. I suppose you could liken them to lions and leopards on Earth. Both are of the same kingdom (Animalia), class (Mammalia), and genus (Panthera), but from there the branch splits.

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The long suspected existence Final Fantasy Online "sub-genuses" and specific "species" reveals itself, afterall! Idk if I'd use it as a reason to completely separate mobs, say Moles from Hedgemoles, before listing their individual names, but it'll certainly make the bestiary more interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Early naturalists such as Frandelont Raimdelle (author of the Raimdelle Codex) are to blame for this.

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I suppose they did they best they could, eh? Even if it's a little confusing at first, it adds a lot of depth and (twelve help me for using the 'I' word) immersion to the game to know that even in the lore there are scholars making mistakes and over-simplistic theories. Good stuff.

Thank you so much for clearing all that up! As soon as I get some free-time (my university is dumping a workload on me that I imagine is somewhat akin to your situation over there) I'll be doing an overhaul on the Wiki's bestiary and this will help IMMENSELY. (The lore about the flies and plasmoids was a great bonus as well.)

Best of luck over there, Ferne (& LOC TEAM!) As always, we appreciate the flair and depth you guys bring to the EN experience.

Thank you, Fernie, for the new lore tidbits! I always crave to know more on the land's creatures, characteristics and backstory.
I'll repeat myself, but it's always nice to read this kind of stuff, and I'll look forward to more lore posts on The Lodestone (and from you).

Now that it came to mind, I'll finish the writing of a post regarding a certain library idea I had...