Wait a minute...is this a plot-hole (Austerities of Wind and Main Scenario-related)?

I've been re-watching a few scenes regarding Primals recently and found out something that didn't add up.

Given that, right after we fought and defeated Garuda, she (along Ifrit and Titan) got absorbed by the Ultima Weapon, how is it possible that we could perform the Austerities of Wind at all?

I thought that once a Primal was absorbed by it, it couldn't be summoned again (so it acted as both, a prison for their essences and additional power sources for the Weapon itself).

So...even though, she was trapped at the time (considering that job quests may or may not have happened during the same time-frame as the main scenario), could there still be some of Garuda's essence for us to confront and obtain her Egi?

What we confront is the essence of Garuda we got from her defeat, even though she was trapped in Ultima we got the crystal of wind directly from her body so that should do the trick.

While I can't think of all of the details the short answer is, yes some of her essence remains for you to do the trial. Basically as a summoner that is what you are doing harnessing a small part of the primals essence to use. And while I am not sure how far into the story you are, like fighting Mog or Shiva, you learn that the Primals aren't what we initially thought they were. While I cannot go into too much detail, as the lore is still debatable but for the most part accepted. The primals aren't actually entities that are actually summoned but ideas and beliefs brought to life by aether. So while Garuda was "absorbed" she still exist and could be summoned again. But the best reason for why she wasnt, immediately, summoned again is probably because watching their "god" be defeated before their eyes, broken the ixal's spirit. They could summon her again, but they briefly lost the desire to. Sorta like when you lose the will to fight during a game or the will to study for a test, similar principle, you still can but the will to do it is gone for a bit. I hope that helps a little, if it doesn't confuse you more, lol.

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Originally Posted by lololink

What we confront is the essence of Garuda we got from her defeat, even though she was trapped in Ultima we got the crystal of wind directly from her body so that should do the trick.

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Really?
I thought the austerities worked without the need of an aspected crystal (in fact, I don't think the Summoner quests ever mentioned it); instead, simply needing the defeat of a given Primal, and call upon their essence from an area where their aspect is strong.

Unless I'm missing something else (because, in Garuda's case, if her whole essence was inside Ultima Weapon, the we shouldn't have been able to call its Egi...would we?)...

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While I can't think of all of the details the short answer is, yes some of her essence remains for you to do the trial.
Basically as a summoner that is what you are doing harnessing a small part of the primals essence to use.
And while I am not sure how far into the story you are, like fighting Mog or Shiva, you learn that the Primals aren't what we initially thought they were.
While I cannot go into too much detail, as the lore is still debatable but for the most part accepted.
The primals aren't actually entities that are actually summoned but ideas and beliefs brought to life by aether.
So while Garuda was "absorbed" she still exist and could be summoned again.
But the best reason for why she wasnt, immediately, summoned again is probably because watching their "god" be defeated before their eyes, broken the ixal's spirit.
They could summon her again, but they briefly lost the desire to.
Sorta like when you lose the will to fight during a game or the will to study for a test, similar principle, you still can but the will to do it is gone for a bit.
I hope that helps a little, if it doesn't confuse you more, lol.

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That could be it.
I know that the lore behind them wasn't fully revealed/expanded upon (beyond "entities made manifest through prayer and aether"), but if we do have some of the Primals' essence still available out there (and/or within us), that may explain how we were able to call forth an Egi from Garuda, despite her being trapped at the time.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Really?
I thought the austerities worked without the need of an aspected crystal (in fact, I don't think the Summoner quests ever mentioned it); instead, simply needing the defeat of a given Primal, and call upon their essence from an area where their aspect is strong.

Unless I'm missing something else (because, in Garuda's case, if her whole essence was inside Ultima Weapon, the we shouldn't have been able to call its Egi...would we?)...

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It's not her soul that we need, it's aether that was used to create her body, when you defeat a primal the aether they were made of scatter around and return to the earth, but a part is also absorbed by all the living being in the area, in the case of Garuda although she didn't vanish we got her wind crystal which was made from her aether, so that would have been enough.


It's also possible that when we beat her she was already disappearing and we got some aether from her while she was trying to regenerate by absorbing Titan and Ifrit.

Don't forget the biggest hint the game gives you: you can only summon a primal you were there to defeat.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

If I remember accurately, and infer corrrectly:

Defeating a primal causes its aetherial form to shatter; it rapidly dissolves back into mist and returns to the Land (or, more vaguely, to the natural order). One who has defeated a primal has themselves necessarily been bathed in this aetherial dispersion, and is forever host to a trace of its essence. Egi, therefore, appear to be summoned, at least in part, from within.

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The best theory I've got at the moment is that the trace of Garuda's essence left on the summoner is harnessed to "program" the gathered aether (as math would do for carbuncle). Ultima may have had Garuda, but it didn't have the traces of her essence left on us from her defeat.

one thing that can be mentioned is the game's timeline is loose, meaning events can take place outside of normal time within the world, to quote tim burton "everything has a beginning, middle and an end, but not in that order" it is one explanations to large plot holes such as the lvl 50 cullenarian quest with nanamo. and even explain how as the warrior of light we can take off and do our own thing when were meant to be in one specific area, or do things in a incredibly short amount of time ((using the quest before the final quest of 2.55 we were only doing a small errand for the lalafell in the quicksands and they even mention we were not there for the very begining of the ceremony when we told as we got there it was just starting.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Don't forget the biggest hint the game gives you: you can only summon a primal you were there to defeat.

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Exception being Bahamut come Heavensward, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Exception being Bahamut come Heavensward, apparently.

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Let's not count our chocobos before they've hatched! There's ways they can reconcile it come Heavensward, so calling an exception so soon is hasty at best. (The easiest being the SMN storyline might have you fight a weaker version of Bahamut or some such nonsense [I hope not]; the more complicated being some Allag-related explanation regarding their ability to summon Egis and their enslavement of dragons)

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Exception being Bahamut come Heavensward, apparently.

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By the time period of Heavensward, the Warrior of Light has already cleared the Final Coil of Bahamut; it's part of the story, even if not a mandatory one for each and every player.

Don't be surprised if the game acts as through you've defeated the Coil storyline regardless of whether or not you actually did; World of Warcraft does the same because it's easier and more sensible not to make the effects of raids only available to the raiders able to complete it and it's very rare that completing a raid will make a difference in how people treat your character.