SMN Opener and CD usage

In an effort to gather more SMN information into one place (cause really the only things available seem to be a generic SMN thread and complaints about Egis), this thread is dedicated to find the best SMN opener and CD usage!

So this is my first week back after a 1.5 year hiatus, and I'm curious to see if anything's changed.

This is what I remember.

• Fester, Energy Drain, Bane, Aetherflow can be used during another oGCD animation, but cause animation delays of their own. So you can go Swiftcast > Fester but not vice versa.
• Garuda is still more useful generally than ifrit, despite ifrit bringing more autoattack dps.
• Pets still made of paper and die miserably to most anything.
• Tri-disaster still useless.
• No reason not to stand in melee, unless constant movement will lower your dps.
• Mana still a problem if fight lasts more than 4/5 minutes. However, Ruin/Ruin II mana cost reduction helps a lot in allowing more Ruin II + oGCD dps.
• DoTs still snapshot raging blows.
• DoTs seem to be able to overwrite buffed DoTs now.

So this is the opener that I used to use.

[Rouse|Spur|Raging Blows] > [Bio II] > [Miasma] > [Bio|Swiftcast|Fester] > [Shadowflare|Enkindle] > [Miasma II|Contagion] > ...etc

We used to put thunder in there too...RIP =(

Aside from opener, only Ruin II to move and use CDs, do not waste mana on Ruin II to fester (unless you need to fit a second fester into Raging Blows, like in the opener). Instead, Fester on Bio casts.

For cooldowns, since they are 60/120/180, I just use them together with Ruin II.

Second option; mash buttons and hope for the best.

The elitists eat this up, the rest of us put the pet on autopilot and try to keep DoTs/Festers up as needed, spam Ruin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

Second option; mash buttons and hope for the best.

The elitists eat this up, the rest of us put the pet on autopilot and try to keep DoTs/Festers up as needed, spam Ruin.

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I wasn't aware that "elitists" were the only people who cared about playing well.

On a side note, anyone who literally puts their pet on auto-pilot (i.e. Sic) deserves any flak they receive. I'm at the point where I would like the Sic command to be removed from the game. We really don't need any more terrible SMNs allowing Garuda to fling crap across the screen.

I'm sure judge will come along in a bit to add to this.

Ifrit does more damage now, if you can afford it contagion full buffed stuff and get Ifrit out for the remainder

Can anyone clear this up, do DOTs snapshot foe req as well ?

My opening rotation that I use with Garuda is as follows (though I'm not sure if it is the best possible opener–harder to research SMN than BLM):

raging > Bio 2 > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Miasma 2 > Contagion + Swiftcast > Shadow Flare > Ruin 2 > Spur > Ruin 2 > Rouse > Fester (Raging falls off) > Ruin 2 + Enkindle > Ruin 2 > Ruin 2 > Ruin > Fester.


Edit: Also, if Elitism means knowing what the hell you are doing, then there is a problem that needs to be settled.

I don't remember if raging affects enkindle, but if it does then your enkindle is really far down. You also dn't fester again until like 8 GCDs later, which means you don't get double fester for raging and miss out on that damage. It also delays your 2nd Aetherflow, which lowers your mana regen. Also all of those Ruin 2's will destroy your mana.

I also am a big fan of "doubling up" on oGCDs to get your CDs out faster, because it saves your Ruin II and also allows you to condense your rotation.

I also tend to put sflare before miasma II, because it fits well right after the swiftcast|fester, and also gives it a tick before miasma comes up.

Miasma II is a spell that you can essentially just consider an "addon" to contagion - you don't cast it ever unless multitargetting or contagion is up. Therefore it doesn't follow the same "get it up asap" as our other DoTs do, because it doesn't have anywhere near 100% uptime.

I try to cast very, very few ruin II, its still pretty awful to the point where autoattacking and not casting will be relatively similar dps, and better dp/mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I wasn't aware that "elitists" were the only people who cared about playing well.

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I'm interested in playing well. I'm interested in min/maxing my stats to obtain any advantage I can.

I'm not so interested in following a recipe of casts. I'm not interested in obtaining a PHD in fantasy pet behavioral sciences and obedience. I'm especially not interested in being judged by some unaccredited arm-chair professor that I'm a crappy SMN.

Maybe my "opener" isn't maxed, but I enjoy not being a control freak, and looking up from my hotbar on occasion. That doesn't make me a "terrible" SMN.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

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I'm going to request you cease all insults. Only will request it once.

"control freak"

Aw man, noone is judging your playstyle, why would you judge others?

I didn't even make any claims that it was the most optimal or that any other opener is bad. This is a post for information, for people to discuss what they use to open. I just posted what I remember from a year ago what we used to think was best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

In an effort to gather more SMN information into one place (cause really the only things available seem to be a generic SMN thread and complaints about Egis), this thread is dedicated to find the best SMN opener and CD usage!

This is what I remember.

• Fester, Energy Drain, Bane, Aetherflow can be used during another oGCD animation, but cause animation delays of their own. So you can go Swiftcast > Fester but not vice versa.
• Garuda is still more useful generally than ifrit, despite ifrit bringing more autoattack dps.
• Pets still made of paper and die miserably to most anything.
• Tri-disaster still useless.
• No reason not to stand in melee, unless constant movement will lower your dps.
• Mana still a problem if fight lasts more than 4/5 minutes. However, Ruin/Ruin II mana cost reduction helps a lot in allowing more Ruin II + oGCD dps.
• DoTs still snapshot raging blows.
• DoTs seem to be able to overwrite buffed DoTs now.

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Now you hold it right there buddy, I'm making a guide thread! Although I fully welcome a thread like this I can link to for reference.

1) Raging Strikes does not affect Enkindle. Foe's Requiem / Trick Attack do.
2) Ifrit > Garuda in generally any fight unless there is a scenario where you get a good duration on a Contagion'd Bane. Even then it needs to be something like 2 or more adds Baned onto. There are very few exceptions here, for example, opening on T9 favors Garuda over Ifrit I find up till the Heavensfall phase.
3) Pets take damage still. They are omitted now from Ground Targets?
4) The animations are still the same. So like you said, Swiftcast seems to be a outside scenario here.

Opener wise:
There are 2 openers which are fairly close although I've never been able to beat my current ones with it. The other one, which Xero uses I believe (with Ifrit as well?) and he'll elaborate on I'm sure, begins with Bio and ends with refreshing it then using Contagion if using Garuda. I think down the road it hurts you for delaying your Enkindle to maximize that open as if you use Enkindle during the open before you switch to Ifrit that's just less potency overall.

The one I've used for Garuda with the best results personally was:

Raging Strikes -> Int Pot ->Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> Rouse -> Fester -> Miasma II -> Potent Poison Pot -> Contagion / Swiftcast -> Shadowflare -> Spur -> Ruin II -> Enkindle -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Ruin II -> Ruin II -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Ruin II -> Aetherflow

The first Rouse doesn't need to be placed that early as Enkindle doesn't need to be in the opener, but I do it more for a convenience sake of minimalizing animation delay in the opener to get that last Ruin II after Fester into Raging Strikes while simultaneously reducing the wait time for Bio -> Fester to 0 so I never have to worry about Festering too soon or taking too long to do so.

With Ifrit, I use the same rotation up to the second Fester but instead of Miasma II, I use a Ruin II and minus contagion of course.

However, after the second Fester, I do:
(Fester) -> Ruin II -> Ruin II -> Bio -> Miasma -> Ruin II -> Fester -> Aetherflow -> Bio II

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

I'm sure judge will come along in a bit to add to this.

Ifrit does more damage now, if you can afford it contagion full buffed stuff and get Ifrit out for the remainder

Can anyone clear this up, do DOTs snapshot foe req as well ?

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Yes, DoTs snapshot Foe but forum user Sunako I believe argued out it was not worth using Garuda in the opener. In using SC to summon Ifrit, you now have to manually use a Shadowflare that may or may not be in your opener buffed from Raging Strikes. This may cost you Ruin's in your opener. This is also assuming that you are using Ifrit's Enkindle, not Garudas post contagion as using Garudas would be a further DPS loss. Down the line, Ifrit's DPS which is that much higher then Garuda will inevitably top the Contagion'd DoTs within a couple GCDs. Which means ultimately it's a waste of 532 MP, even if you didn't really need it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

Maybe my "opener" isn't maxed, but I enjoy not being a control freak, and looking up from my hotbar on occasion. That doesn't make me a "terrible" SMN.

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If you applied this mentality to an overall fight, you would likely being doing a noticeably lower DPS then SMNs that do maximize, in which case if you winded up that low, wouldn't you then be considered a terrible SMN by others? Maxing your opener is the highest core contributor of a SMNs DPS in any given fight.

You need a timeout as well. No one was trying to be offensive here but simply figuring out what is optimal.