Matriarchal societies and Keepers of the Moon

Ok, so we know Keeper societies are matriachal, mostly from that naming convention thread at the top of the forum. Though apparently they operate in small units, which adds a layer of complexity but I'll mostly try to avoid that for this post.

A friend pointed out to me a tendency that I've noticed myself, however. Among those that create backgrounds for their characters and even some interpretations outside of backstories, there seems to be this tendency to believe this means that Male Keepers of the Moon (in a traditional unit) have very little freedom/autonomy. Implications of abuse are not uncommon.

In short, it's not just a matriarchy, but one taken to an extreme. I do recognize that extremes often make for better storytelling.

I am just wondering if this is supported/validated by any official source, or if this is just players/RPers/Lore-fans going their own way?

Honestly I'm curious myself to know more about Keeper of the Moon society as a whole. More is known about Seekers then is known about Keepers at this point. Often times with this, those that make Keepers at least in the role playing perspective, I think they're unsure how to really go about making a story outside of something along the lines of the original post. Not much is known about the Moon kitties sadly. =/

With that, I too am rather curious about the same as the original poster has posted.

From what I recall of the archer quests, Keepers were in contention with the elezen in the Twelveswood for who is the better hunter in the wood. Also, Pawah kept calling your Keeper buddy "sister" despite the fact that they were enemies, like you would call a guy your brotha. The group of females that followed Pawah are referred to as "litters" by your Keeper partner.

I don't outright recall anything saying much about it to be honest. I know there was a lot of talk about what the society would be like, and there were points raised to both the abusive side and to the protective/loving side as well.

With Keeper groups being more family based as opposed to tribe based I would think there would be a lot of variation and it all depends on what the matriarch of each family unit would be like.

From what I've read the units tend to be from immediate family to extended family but not beyond. Blood relations, primarily.

The Past Is a Story We Never Tell
Moogle quest

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The men of the Keepers of the Moon live a wanderer's life, for they are at their best in small doses. Women and children keep the hearth, ply various trades, and accept game and visits from the menfolk.

But King Poach(coerl king) denies women this gods-given rule over matters of family. He forces women to live with him, forbids them to see their sisters, mothers, aunts. Most unnaturally, they lie with him and him alone!

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Based on this quote, it seems like men aren't really abused. But instead are "encouraged" out of the clan mostly due to a clash of personalities? Almost similar how elephants do it: adolescent males get too rowdy/wild are more or less forced out due to it.

Prior to this revelation, it was thought that seeker males were kept and traded among each clan as a sex slave/breeder since males are so very rare. And it doesn't help that one FATE referred to one as a "breeding male"

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Originally Posted by Caraway

I don't outright recall anything saying much about it to be honest. I know there was a lot of talk about what the society would be like, and there were points raised to both the abusive side and to the protective/loving side as well.

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There's another angle both of those positions are missing, however. As an example... consider a family in today's society, which most would say still tends to be a bit patriarchal in its norms. Say both the mother and father in this family work professionally, but the father has a greater income. Until, that is, an unfavorable market leads to the father being laid off and so becoming unemployed. Now the power dynamic in this family has shifted ever so slightly. The mother is now the primary provider. A little more matriarchal, you could say.

Nonetheless, in our society both individuals are typically going to have high levels of autonomy. Before and after the change.

Back to Keepers, everything I've read from players seems to suggest that, contrary to the above example... people from both positions you've mentioned... suggests a low level of autonomy. That is, that males would typically have their lives more or less run for them, regardless of how well intentioned (or not) that might be.

Maybe that's correct, but I'm questioning it. I'm wondering, basically, if that assumption is speculation, or if it's founded on any canon lore we've seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caraway

With Keeper groups being more family based as opposed to tribe based I would think there would be a lot of variation and it all depends on what the matriarch of each family unit would be like.

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Yeah, I know there could easily be some or a lot of variation from unit to unit here. Tendencies, though. Just as players tend to assume the position I've described previously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myahele

Based on this quote, it seems like men aren't really abused. But instead are "encouraged" out of the clan mostly due to a clash of personalities? Almost similar how elephants do it: adolescent males get too rowdy/wild are more or less forced out due to it.

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yeah, the abuse thing just seems to be an innovation by RPers. That quote, however, sheds a lot of light on it. Thanks for sharing!

So the men just aren't around most of the time, it seems...

I've not found anything in game that supports (or brings up) abuse to males in particular as a norm within Keeper society. The only norm with males that I have seen is that they live as wanderers and essentially sojourn for much of it, barring some particular individuals. In that respect, they have as much freedom as one can interpret, as long as they don't over-stay their welcome I suppose.

The things that happen during their stay seems to be left up to the imagination. As varied as family units can be, there are probably cases of abuse as there are cases of warm and loving families; which is the norm is up in the air, but most of the abuse I've seen directed at any Keeper were from individuals outside of the race.

With little information, we are free to make conjecture, but on the flip-side it will remain conjecture. Very interesting to think and talk about though!

I couldn't help but notice is that Keeper males aren't given names in the same way as Seeker males. They take the mother's first and last name, and simply add a numeric suffix to the first name, like some sort of serial number. While there may or may not be any physical abuse, their very naming conventions deny males an individual identity, so a desire to break from that is understandable. "King Poach" probably refuses to use his Keeper name for that very reason.

Of course, the female Keepers who talk about it describe the arrangement as mutually beneficial, so I guess their understanding is that guys are free to bone whoever they want, and it's not a big deal so long as they get kids out of it now and then.

The only "good" Keeper male we've met is the guy from the Wanderer's Palace HM quest, and he was chased out of his hometown. With as few males as there seem to be, I can't imagine one not wanting to lay with women as something that would go over that well in their society.

Keeper males have their own freedoms, however they are not quite the same as females. Males are allowed to do what they want when it comes to their own lives, but it's clear the fundamental rules of family have the female in charge. Males are more or less there so family lines continue to exist (why they are referred to as "breeding males" in the one levequest). They are not there to raise the children, feed the family, or there to contribute to society other than while he is being housed (pulling his own weigh). Once the female feels enough children have been had, the male goes on his merry way to give children to another female or just live out his life.

You can't look at Miqo'te life through human eyes or with human resonimg because it is a design alien to humans. For Keepers, there is no such thing as a "father" in a child's life. In fact, children probably never know who their blood-father ever is. Part of this is due to the obscure male:female ratio of Miqo'te genetics, but part may also have to do with male personality types. Given that the few males we do know endes up as villains, it's likely males aren't genetically designed to be the "caring" type. In fact, they probably are either extremely indifferent towards their fellow Miq'te, or may even be prone to aggression (also supports why females prefer to run the family). Males may also know this and acknowledge their genetic makers that make them prone to aggressive tendencies, and voluntarily isolate themselves for the good of society.