The Rise of the Adventurers' Guild

I was hoping for some help in making sense of the AG narrative. I don't want to be quick to call it discrepancy, but something seems off.

Here's a list of relevant information and the points drawn from them.

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Originally Posted by The Waning of the Sixth Sun

1561

• The Eorzean Alliance forms

1563

• The Imperial Garlean Army withdraws to Ala Mhigo and begins construction of a defensive wall.
• The Age of Calm begins. Ishgard suddenly withdraws from the Eorzean Alliance

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The Alliance forms in 1561, The Age of Calm begins in 1563 when the Garleans withdraw to Ala Mhigo.

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Originally Posted by The Age of Adventure

And it was thus that Eorzea slipped into the "Age of Calm", during which an uneasy peace prevailed.

To prepare for the coming storm, the first task of the newly-formed alliance was to fortify their defenses. In the previous era, few city-states maintained organized militaries, opting instead to hire the services of mercenaries and hedge knights to champion their causes. However, after the fall of Ala Mhigo, city guard units were restructured into legitimate standing armies which could be quickly called upon and mobilized if he need arose.

Unfortunately, this left a majority of the realm's hireswords with nowhere to pledge their fealty, and with their livelihood ripped out from under them, many of these men and women resorted to acts of villainy to survive. For fear of the situation worsening and the land falling into chaos, several respected leaders from around Eorzea gathered together and formed a network of guilds to provide these lost souls with the opportunity to redeem themselves by aiding others.

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The Adventurers Guild resulted from cultural changes brought about by the Alliance's existence.

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Originally Posted by Archimbalt

I, myself, was once an adventurer, just as you. The Age of Calm had given rise to the guilds, and there was much work to be had. Work like these guildhests, though they were simply called behests back then.

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Clarification that the Age of Calm gave rise to the guilds.

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Originally Posted by Tylswaen

'Twas twenty yearsh ago, or thereabouts. With the realm finally at peace─or something reshemblin' it─a great mercenary captain had a plan. This man─aye, a livin' legend if ever there was one─brought all the shellswordsh who were itchin' for a new fight under one roof. So it was that the Adventurersh' Guild was─hic!─born, and there were no shortage o' eager applicants. Aye, everyone 'n' their uncle was lookin' to be an adventurer. Save for one young boy─the son o' the very man what founded it. This boy wanted only one thing─to follow in his father's footsteps and make his name as the greatest sellsword who ever walked the realm. Did the boy give up 'is dream? Did he reckon 'e'd already achieved it? Can't say for sure, lasshie, only that the boy is now a man, and the man standsh behind the counter at the Adventurersh' Guild, dispensin' advice to young glory-seekers like here, and ale to ol' drunkards like meself.

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After the AG was founded, Baderon became a sellsword. Only later did he become a guildmaster and bar owner.

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Originally Posted by Niniya

The Drowning Wench will always be a favorite among pirates— she's cheap, she's loaded with grog, and she never says "no." It's been a favored haunt of adventurers for nigh on twenty years, ever since a retired freelance and his comrades established the Adventurer's Guild here.

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The Drowning Wench was established in roughtly 1557, the Year Ala Mhigo fell.

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Originally Posted by Baderon

I weren't no more'n a wee sprat th' last time th' serpent rose up from the depths t' menace the city. An' I can tell ye now, ain't a soul who thinks on them days fondly.

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Baderon (in 1572) thinks of himself as a young man (in 1562) when the serpent last rose.

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Originally Posted by Letter to Baderon

The lettering on this envelope is so poorly done that it is only thanks to the keen eye of your moogle supervisor that you know it is addressed to Baderon Tenfingers, Drowning Wench founder and proprietor.

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Baderon founded the Drowning Wench.

So, Baderon is named as the founder of the Drowning Wench, but it's said that the Wench was established 20 years ago. That's the same time that the Guild itself was established, so when did Baderon go out and become a sellsword? In the version 1.0 echoes, you can even see Baderon working the coutners as a young man in what it is assumed to be is 1562 (the non-echo-vision appearance of the starshower and the investigation of Eorzea by the Circle of Knowing - only Thancred's visit is confirmed beyond doubt to be dated as 1562).

I can't figure out a way to tell the story where it all fits properly from the fall of Ala Mhigo to Baderon running the Wench.

I do suspect there may be a contradiction in here somewhere, but (much like with the Sultana's age issue) I couldn't tell you where it might be. I also considered that perhaps the Wench was a bar without a guild in it, originally, but even that doesn't solve all my problems.

Anybody able to work it out?

I'll say it if you wont, Moose -- THE LORE IS BROKEN!!


I think we misinterpreted Niniya last night, though. Now I'm thinking that she doesn't necessarily mean that Baderon had founded The Wench along side the guild, just that it was a popular place because of the guild even before. Maybe Barderon came to the guild as a sellsword and, naught but a few moons later, decided to open the bar.

And, in the defense of these NPCs, drunk or otherwise, they do add their own little "-ish" to it. Based on the dates we have, they should mean that the Adventurer's Guilds were established 14 years ago, not 20. But that still doesn't explain how Momodi, Baderon and Miounne are seen, through The Echo, standing in a yet-to-be-founded Adventurer's Guild--with or without grog on tap.

Unless... Unless the date in the description of Warburton's Journal is wrong...

A man can try!

1557 [20 Years Ago] Ala Mhigo falls
1561 [16 Years Ago] The Alliance forms
1562 [15 Years Ago] 1.0 Echoes (at least Thancreds, presumed to be all three)
1563 [14 Years Ago] The Garleans hole up in Ala Mhigo, the Alliance breaks

If we force known facts to stick, between 20 and 16 years ago, the cities militarize their city guard (assuming this refers to the Knights of the Barracuda, the Brass Blades, and the Wood Wailers + Gods' Quiver). This puts sellswords out of business, problems ensue, and the guilds are created to solve them. Adventuring emerges from the guild life, and with it comes the Adventurers' Guild...

If the Drowning Wench was founded "about 20 years ago" as well, I just can't factor in any way for Baderon to both be the founder of that branch of the guild and have spurned joining the guild to be a sellsword for a while. That must be the specific part I can't make work.

If there is a discrepancy, my primary suspect is the "20 years ago" for the opening of the Wench. That makes the most sense to me. ~1557 seems like a pretty rapid rise for the AG and predates the true Age of Calm. Provided that Baderon is truly the founder, it also forces him to have become a sellsword, bonded with a mentor figure, rose to become a great in the business, and retired famous across a lustrous career of a few months to a year or two, maximum. If we push the date to around 15 years, instead, Baderon's father has time to make the guild spread while his son is off doing his thing, Baderon gets in a solid five years of ass-kicking (a rough average military enlistment even today), and he's back slinging swill in time to be a fresh faced pubkeep in the 1.0 Echoes (provided that they do take place in 1562. I once pegged Lominsa for 1567, but then that makes several occasions on which a massive starshower has appeared over Eorzea outside of Echo visions, which I find less likely than a 15 mistaken for 20, so far. Something like that happens more than once, and a few years apart, people tend to make a bigger deal out of it).

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I just can't factor in any way for Baderon to both be the founder of that branch of the guild and have spurned joining the guild to be a sellsword for a while. That must be the specific part I can't make work.

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Oh, no, I'm proposing that the Lominsan guild was founded separately from The Wench, and that Baderon retired shortly thereafter (within that same year maybe) to found it. This wouldn't allow for much time between the creation of the guild and the opening of Baderon's bar for him to have continued to work outside of the guild, but it's better than the alternative.

Again, my big issue remains that we saw these three in active Adventurer's Guilds in 1562 when it's said they weren't created until 1563. This is further disturbed by the length of time these NPCs say it's been in service, even if they do really mean 14 years rather than 20.

At any rate, all this definitely need cleaning up, lol.

I made the mistake of re-reading this thread.


My headache has returned.


Acetaminofern, STAT!

That is unless 2 of them where barkeepers and decided to make the adventurers guild in 1563, that would leave the adventuring of baderoon to less than a year or so.

Closest I can get at a glance without changing dates would be something like Balderon founding the Wench (the bar part) as something of a pet project in between sellsword duties and leaving it in the care of someone else whenever he was out gallivanting. That would leave him as founder, part time proprietor, active sellsword, and eventual full time proprietor.