It doesn't matter how good of a DRG you are.

You will always be considered a 'second pick' to Ninja's and Monks. And this is slowly starting to grate my nerves a little.

I see a -ton- of really good players who join parties, only to be talked down to. "don't worry, the dragoon will tank the ground for us" is uttered before the runs even start. If a dragoon dies, it's "To be expected" and "Their natural state."

Why the heck is this? I played FFXI as well. I knew the loldrg stigma of having to build TP for one powerful pentathrust, or losing your wyvern pet easily. But this continued trend continues to baffle me.

Slowly, as I've geared my DRG more and more, I've started to realise exactly what it is.

Even some of the worst-played Monks/Ninjas will still be competative with an extremely well-played Dragoon. This is becuase Dragoon's sustained damage is weak, and to top it off - dragoons' DPS is never prioritized as MNK's dps is.

Even when a DRG can prioritize their DPS, they still have MNK's and NIN's who don't push their maximum potential who can DPS on-level with them. When going all out, food pots and all.

So is the DRG class too weak right now? It's nice for Burst Phases and pumping out numbers in a short period of time, with one of the highest spikes of the three melee DPS. It's survivability of physical mechanics and takign threat with Keener Flurry is pretty nice for survivability pushing in weaker content. And their jumps add a level of diversity and gap closing that the other classes don't have. But the big thing parties focus on will be their DPS, not their utility as an independant class for their own DPS.

A combination of social stigmas mix with the underperforming job as a whole. And ultimately, this means that it doesn't matter how good of a dragoon you are - you'll always be considered a lesser DPS than any other job out there.

DRG does great damage -- anybody who plays the game can tell that they're extremely competitive when properly played and geared.
Maybe it's a compound effect of being a male mi'qote and dragoon that attracts people's attention to you? (Nobody ever said anything negative to me when I play my dragoon. Ever)

Monk may be picked over a DRG for Coil, but that's because Dragon Kick and Mantra are extremely helpful, and Monk's damage is comparable to Dragoon.
Dragoon's debuff increases the damage of the Bard(s), which most raid groups will have.

In an age where people consider using STR+VIT jewelry (110 melded) over 130 STR stuff (to help survival), it's obvious that they would pick a job that decrease damage taken and increase healing rather than a job that provides some extra DPS.

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Personally, I don't mind dragoons. I will, however, refuse to get pug ninjas for any serious content. They tend to have blinders on, focusing on their timers, combos and mudras way too much and will forgot to do mechanics or dodge in time. Thankfully, I can let the FC's main ninja know when that happens over VoIP when he does that, but I can't with PF/DF Ninjas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Docent

DRG does great damage -- anybody who plays the game can tell that they're extremely competitive when properly played and geared.
Maybe it's a compound effect of being a male mi'qote and dragoon that attracts people's attention to you? (Nobody ever said anything negative to me when I play my dragoon. Ever)

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Usually I play Warrior, actually. I notice this moreso when there's a DRG in the party. Personally, I've proven myself time and time again that I'm more than capable as a Dragoon. ;) But I'm not wishing to make this subject about -my- dragoon.

But I'll concede. Even when I put out my best, I don't think I can quite reach a Monk or Ninja at their prime. This might be due to the lower ilevel (Most of what I seen is from an i115-120 DRG perspective for my own personal DPS.) My benchmark tends to be pretty high to match my standards, after all.

It was old an old stigma based on the directional attacks that the class suffered from pre patch. Now the class is equal if not better. Especially since you don't have to bother with Ninjitsu lag input in my opinion (Sorry Ninjas.)

Edit: Still waking up.

My first post, now that that's out of the way, drg is awesome and I am currently learning how to maximize my damage for my 113 drg, any good combo tips would help.

My main is my 126 brd and of all the Meele dps the game offers I like drg the best, I'm not a coil player but drg doesn't seem to be bad when I run a dugeon, etc with one or as playing one, they also have the coolest looking armor, them and warrior that is.

You know whats really odd? I don't see DRGs in my party frame till their HP is zero.

Really haven't seen this problem lately, I rarely ever see PF groups specifying no dragoons. Also, lots of coil statics still use DRG as well, they're the second highest dps in the game after their buffs/positional changes once again. Monk is stronger but also significantly more difficult to play, especially in movement heavy fights where their greased lightning stacks drop off lowering their DPS significantly.

Long story short..
loldrg in ffxiv comes from DRG originally having longer position locks for jumps and low magic defense, often resulting in death.
loldrg in ffxi comes from DRG being the weakest DPS in the game for several years (they eventually buffed it)

The joke about the Dragoons "tanking the floor" comes from an oversight from the dev team. They gave the Dragoon a lower MDEF than the rest of the melee DPS.
Since the raid takes mostly magic damage, Dragoons were taking more damage than usual.

Also, since their jumps used lock them in place for longer than it is now, they were more likely to be hit from an unexpected (or expected?) AoE.

Combine the two and you get dead Dragoons pretty fast.

There is another thing regarding Dragoon and jumps: careless Dragoons can easily fall from Titan's lair and jump into deadly arenas (T5), for example.

Speaking of Titan, I belive the joke started with Titan HM, back in the days when people couldn't beat it easily (and when it was more laggy) for the relic quest. He was (and still is) a Dragoon killer.

Since then, the dev team gave the Dragoon a better MDEF and less restrictive jumps as well as overall improvements (positional requirements, DoTs...) which eased the job of the Dragoon.
But since the joke is funny and people love that kind of scapegoats, it stayed. I might even say that since these buffs, a "Dragoon tanking the floor" can be percieved as a quite bad Dragoon, even more than before.

But don't take it personally. Good players still know how to recognise a good Dragoon when they see one.

Considering most players have Zetas equipped on their mains and are close to 130 by this point in the patch, gear is everything. If you're only using a 110 weapon, don't sweat the numbers so much.

DRG already got pretty much all of their buff wishlist granted recently, so a DRG in random content performing on the same level as a MNK or NIN in the exact same level of gear has a pretty noticeable DPS advantage, unless it's one of the few fights meant to give MNK or NIN a serious edge.

Thank goodness, I don't think anyone tries to lock players based on class out of party anymore. Often times, my comps that I build tend to be 2 Melee DPS (MNK/NIN/DRG, no overlap), BRD, and BLM/SMN.

However, I do see people preferring the MNK+NIN comp to the MNK+DRG, NIN+DRG comps. The reason when I ask this is often "They do more damage."

And I have to face facts with that, I don't think DRG's do as much DPS as NIN/MNK does in encounters. Again, haven't gotten my DRG to i130 yet, so that may be something I can test and play around with a little more when I get there.

I do agree with most of the sentiments listed here - they're not nearly in as bad as a situation as they were pre-2.5, when they were more of a laughing stock than considered a competative DPS. But I do believe they still udnerperform compared to the other classes.