As a warrior, pulling heavy in dungeons might seem like a good idea, but I see many who tend to just pull everything then use raw overpowers like a paladin uses flash while cycling cooldowns and waiting for the DPS to kill the pack. This is a bad habit to get into and not effective if you are in a group with low AoE dps potential.
If you prep the pull correctly you can make up for lower DPS by dealing massive AoE damage yourself and self healing the majority of incoming damage back up. Bare with me lots of numbers incoming.
Step 1 (The Basics): Switch to STR gear. You don't need 12k life for this stuff.
Step 2 (Preperation): Infuriate before the pull. We want infuriate to be available again while we are killing the group.
Step 3 (The Pull): Pick up the first few groups with flash to conserve tp. Refresh wrath stacks with HS > Maim > Eye if your stacks are low on time as you are passing through a group.
Step 4 (The Deeps): Bloodbath on approach to kill spot > HS (Unchained > Vengeance) > Maim (Internal Release > Zerk) > Overpower spam till unchained wears > Infuriate > Steel Cyclone (Pacified) > Flex.
Numbers
Vengeance: 50 potency x1, 90 potency x4 (assuming 3 sec between each enemy attack + zerk and maim bonus after first retaliation) 410 total
Overpower: 216 x 8 ((120*1.5 zerk)*1.2 maim) 1728 total
Steel Cyclone: 360 x1 ((200*1.5 zerk)*1.2 maim) 360 total
All ignoring defiance penalty so potency is true potency.
Total potency per target (ignoring HS > Maim prebuff damage and AA damage): 2498 potency per target in 20 second window with 16% bonus crit from wrath + IR.
Bloodbath Potency per target (ignoring HS > Maim prebuff damage and AA damage) 624.5 (equal to 2 unbuffed inner beasts worth of healing per target)
To get an idea of how much raw damage this will put out for you per target, use uncombo'd skull sunderer on a training dummy without defiance then multiply that damage by potency/100.
To include crit, take your crit chance, add 16% then divide by 2. So with only 14% base crit chance + 16% from stacks + IR we have 30% crit/2 = 15% damage increase on average.
2498 potency * 1.15 = 2872.7 potency including crit.
Example: Outside of party my 100 potency attacks deal 210 damage on average. Assuming only 14% base crit chance we end up with:
210*28.727 = 6032.67 damage per target over 20 seconds, or 301 DPS per target.
So remember always fully buff before overpower spam. It's not just for holding hate!
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03-21-2015, 07:51 AMArtairWarrior: How to maximize DPS and survival during large dungeon pulls.
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03-21-2015, 08:47 AMSpookyGhost
Drive-by HS -> Maim is better than Flashing as it allows you to get Maim up as soon as you're able to. You shouldn't be low enough on TP to need to Flash for picking up packs.
You also don't want to start with HS->Maim once everything is together, you want to start with Overpower and if Maim isn't already up you would do Maim after you've established AOE aggro.
Infuriate also shouldn't be back up within the same pull, even if you activate it as soon as possible, you have 25-30s (can't remember what the number is) before 5 Wrath completely wears off, and then 30-35s before Infuriate is back up. It won't be up two times unless your group's AOE DPS is incredibly low.
Another thing to note is you can activate Thrill + Conv and turn off Defiance in place of using Unchained when it's not available, after you've used your 5 Wrath on a Steel Cyclone. This also works for any pack that can be stunned without Thrill or Conv up, because you won't be taking damage while things are stunned.
Infuriate -> HS -> Maim (drive-by) -> Unchained + Berserk (as you're approaching your stop point) -> OP -> Vengeance + IR -> OP -> Bloodbath -> OP spam
Alternatively:
Infuriate -> HS -> Maim (drive-by) -> Berserk + IR (as you're approaching your stop point) -> SC -> Thrill + Conv + Defiance off -> OP -> Bloodbath -> OP x inf
That's really just min/maxing your AOE DPS, though. As long as you get all your buffs up while spamming OP then you're fine. -
03-21-2015, 08:53 AMArtair
Ideally you want to be doing maim right before berserk anyway so they both wear off around the same time as long as you use hs > maim > eye at some point during the pull to refresh time on stacks and so you have it up for the start of the HS > (Unchained + vengeance). You still always want to maim > IR/zerk before overpower though. You don't want to lose maim while zerk and unchained are up and you are overpowering/steel cyclone.
I prefer to flash the first few packs so the healer can divine seal + regen me or hit me with a big crit adlo as i'm coming to the end of the pull without worrying about losing something I've not had a chance to tag or the mob i used HS on. It gives a solid lead on hate to do a HS>maim before overpower spam. Also allows the healer to adlo/cure me if its a really long pull. On the subject of losing a mob to a twitchy healer during the pull, second wind with defiance up and str gear on works well as a makeshift AoE flash for everything on the hate list even if it's miles behind :) -
03-21-2015, 10:15 AMArtairThis is the reason I flash on the pull. If you are getting into position to use an unbuffed overpower without vengeance up you are gonna take a big spike in damage, likely freaking out the healer and making them think twice about DPSing. If you use vengeance then unbuffed overpower before unchained/zerk you are losing potency from vengeance by delaying zerk/unchained by 2 GCDs. As you reach the last pack, just HS 1 Unchained/veng > Maim 2 IR/Zerk > go to town. Even if there's 2 untagged mobs in the last pack the range on overpower will rip them back easily if they head for the healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
You refresh the timer on the stacks as you are half way through pulling with a HS > Maim so the 5 stacks last more like 45 to 50 seconds. Same idea as OT unchained opener using infuriate > wait 29 sec > vengeance to refresh stacks > wait 15 sec > MT pulls > you get unchained + 2 inner beasts on opener before turning defiance off.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Indeed! It's slightly less effective as you lose 6% crit rate from 3 stacks (maim, veng and zerk). It's useful if you are splitting the pull between bosses into 2 or in a gated dungeon, otherwise I prefer to pull everything and burn those on the bosses so I can keep defiance off for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
I unchained before maim so I gain an extra 2% crit from the additional wrath stack. As unchained wears off, I infuriate then SC so I lose no potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
I wouldn't use zerk while approaching before steel cyclone. You'll have to wait for the mobs at the back of the pack to catch up and get into range to hit them with SC, that's a lot of healing and damage lost if you don't wait and if you do wait, you'll miss the 9th hit on zerk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
For pure DPS I'd do things differently like moving vengeance to after the first overpower so all hits are fully buffed, but for max survival, you should always get bloodbath/veng up before the first overpower. It slows incoming damage down to a crawl and gives the healer confidence to go ham. -
03-21-2015, 11:27 AMSpookyGhostAs far as my experience goes, the healer starts with a Cure 2 -> Regen -> etc., so the initial damage you take is covered by the Cure 2 anyway. Delaying Vengeance isn't the end of the world, I use it directly after my first OP regardless. The reason Flashing isn't ideal is because for those 2 GCDs you spent Flashing for no damage, you could've gotten up Maim and went directly to Overpower town as soon as you're at the end of the pull. Pairing Maim with Unchained + Berserk is ideal of course, but in an AOE situation it's better to press the button that hits all the things for 2 GCDs than buffing yourself on one mob for 2 GCDs. That's why I think drive-by Maim is ideal, the initial and following OPs will get all the hate you need, including all the buffs you'll be popping. Your healer can't heal you as you're going, but they really shouldn't need to. A SS should take care of 75-99% of the damage you take and if you need to you can pop a weak CD like Foresight as you're running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artair
This still requires 60s between you pressing the Infuriate button and the trash pack you're killing to die, which shouldn't be happening. If it does, your group's DPS is massively slow or you're pulling for a full minute. On the chance that does happen, obviously using Infuriate is good though saving it for the boss could be better, depending on the situation (mobs will probably be low, will probably waste damage on a SC when a BLM is casting Fire2 or w/e anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Artair
Yeah, Unchained is definitely way better, but that does assume that there's 2 minutes between pull 1 and pull 2, which there won't always be (especially with a massively geared group and a lower ilvl dungeon). Most newer dungeons (maybe all?) have stop gaps, so you're definitely going to need to not use Unchained on a few of the pulls unfortunately. Thrill + Conv is also good on the boss, yeah, it just kind of varies from dungeon to dungeon and where you need the extra DPS most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artair
Not sure if 2% extra crit outweights the benefit of having 1 extra Unchained buffed OP, but that's sort of splitting hairs anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artair
Yeah, if you instead go IR + Berserk -> OP -> Thrill + Conv -> SC -> Defiance off + Bloodbath -> OP x inf that would give you 9 hits of Zerk and delay your SC one GCD, it would just cost you one OP with Defiance still on which isn't much of a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artair
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03-21-2015, 02:13 PMBlueskyy
People always says PLD have more potential in speed run, but they are wrong. Most people just don't know how to play Warrior in Speed run. If played correctly, for those few secs where Warrior def cd are up. Their hp won't even drop by 1/2 (My experience)
I usually start off with Foresight > Convo > Thrill and wait for WHM Holy, After holy stun wares off. I start to use big cd like Vengance > Blood bath > berserk > Steel > Infu > Steel > OP Spam -
03-21-2015, 03:23 PMKisaiTenshiYes. Usually it will be one of two:Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Cure 2->Regen->Cure 2 and then Cure I's if the HP stays above 80%
Cure 2->Regen->Cure 2 -> Presence of Mind -> Cure 2 spam, if HP isn't staying above 50%
(It will look the the healer is standing still/not-doing-anything after Regen fires, but that's because the GCD prevents everything from being used.)
And that's only for the initial pull after casting Protect+Stoneskin II completes. If a tank takes off before SS casts, that's going to be a much shorter pull.
I'll cast cure/cureII if the tank hits the 50% point and is still running, because even if a tank has 10000HP, Cure II is only going to cure 3000-4000HP unless it crits. -
03-21-2015, 11:27 PMArtairMy point about maximizing AoE dps was mainly for when the group consists of low AoE dps like monk, sch and smn. If you have a high AoE Dps comp like double BLM + WHM or BLM WHM BRD then don't waste unchained at all because the mobs will be dead before unchained wears off regardless of your damage. Save it for the boss instead.Quote:
This still requires 60s between you pressing the Infuriate button and the trash pack you're killing to die, which shouldn't be happening. If it does, your group's DPS is massively slow or you're pulling for a full minute. On the chance that does happen, obviously using Infuriate is good though saving it for the boss could be better, depending on the situation (mobs will probably be low, will probably waste damage on a SC when a BLM is casting Fire2 or w/e anyway).
You lose a fully buffed overpower and replace it with a fully buffed steel cyclone at the end for more damage + healing. Again, only needed if you are in a low AOE dps comp.Quote:
Not sure if 2% extra crit outweights the benefit of having 1 extra Unchained buffed OP, but that's sort of splitting hairs anyway.
You get maim up to refresh your stacks, and you always put it up again as you are approaching the last pack. The first thing you do when everything is in range is a fully buffed overpower so you lose no time. You flash the rest so the dps can start getting dps rolling before the end of the pull, monk can start building GL and healer can drop cure/SS/Adlo whenever they like with no risk and it's easy tohit all of the upcoming group with it. If you just HS > maim you are gonna have a lot of unclaimed mobs coming after you. I hate having mobs chasing me that I have little to no agro no. It's an accident waiting to happen. The healer should always feel safe enough to throw out a cure/regen without peeling mobs off you mid pull.Quote:
The reason Flashing isn't ideal is because for those 2 GCDs you spent Flashing for no damage, you could've gotten up Maim