Life Surge + Full Thrust VS Life Surge + Phlebotomize

Hi, title sort of says it all.

How does a Life Surged Phlebotomize stand against a primed Life Surge Full Thrust?

Does the crit happen per tick of the Phleb DoT?

If it does, could imagine that would make Life Surge + Phlebotomize better damage overall..?

Has anyone tested this? Drg is one of my alts, don't get a lot of experience with it except in dungeons and PvP, so hoping I'm managing my CDs best as possible should it go into a raid or primal

edited: solved - does not == DoT crits.

Life surge does not stack with Phlebotomize. The initial hit will crit, however, unlike Doton, each additional DOT tick does not crit, but hits at normal non-buffed potency like it would crit.

Stick with fully buffed Full Thrust.

Tested this after learning Doton+Kassatsu caused the DOT ticks to crit after Ninja came out, as well as recently to test if any update to the way DOTs worked for Dragoon.

Yes, Life Surge does not affect the DoT portion of Phlebotomize or Chaos Thrust.

However, life surge can be used on Chaos Thrust at times to be a DPS increase. (This is due to the CD of Life Surge being 50 seconds, and the natural "DRG rotation" being 60 seconds long.


I will try and show this using timing:
In a normal rotation, your first full thrust comes at the 20 second mark: HT (2.5 sec) -> ID Combo (7.5 sec) -> Phleb (2.5 sec) -> FT Combo (7.5 sec) = 20 seconds. The life surge CD is 50 seconds, so it will come off of CD at the 70 second mark. If you are following your rotation correctly, this will time up exactly with a chaos thrust. Assuming you are behind the target, using Life Surge on this chaos thrust is a DPS increase because you would have to wait another 10 seconds for a Full Thrust to come up again. This builds a pattern, making every 3rd Life Surge optimally used on a Chaos Thrust.

1st Life Surge - 20 seconds - Full Thrust
2nd Life Surge - 70 seconds - Chaos Thrust
3rd Life Surge - 120 seconds - Full Thrust
4th Life Surge - 170 seconds - Full Thrust
5th Life Surge - 220 seconds - Chaos Thrust
6th Life Surge - 270 seconds - Full Thrust
7th Life Surge - 320 seconds - Full Thrust
8th Life Surge - 370 seconds - Chaos Thrust
and so on.

The problem with using life surge on ONLY full thrust, is that the way the rotation works, you will always have to wait 60 seconds to use your Life Surge. So that extra 10 seconds starts to add up over time. This results in getting only 5 Life Surges in a 5 minute time instead of the 6 you could have had in the same time window if you used every 3rd Life Surge on chaos thrust.

Some notes on this:
1) This is only true IF your chaos thrust lands from the rear. If there is any question about where it will land. you are better off waiting for Full Thrust
2) This strategy will not work if your Skill Speed is too high, as it will cause your rotation to reach chaos thrust before your Life Surge is off CD
3) The DPS gain from this is very minimal, by my calculation it is 7.2 potency/minute (.1125 pot/sec), which is a very small amount of DPS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Truth

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I think there is also a skill speed threshold where it is a dps gain to life surge > Chaos thrust. Like anything below 390 SKS iirc?

Been practicing CD timing on a dummy just now.

I also noticed if I Bfb before the 1st chaos, the bfb runs out just 1 second or so before my second Full Thrust combo finishes. 509 skill speed. Is there a target SSpeed I should aim for so I can get a Bfb to be stacked for Chaos, Phleb, first, and second Thrust combo?

If you activate it on the tail end of your gcd, about 75% reset as opposed to immediatly after the last gcd it should last just long enough to clip and still count.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Been practicing CD timing on a dummy just now.

I also noticed if I Bfb before the 1st chaos, the bfb runs out just 1 second or so before my second Full Thrust combo finishes. 509 skill speed. Is there a target SSpeed I should aim for so I can get a Bfb to be stacked for Chaos, Phleb, first, and second Thrust combo?

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You can do it with as little as 367 SS if your latency is good. I do it regularly with 391 SS no problems and I've got EU shitstain latency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

I think there is also a skill speed threshold where it is a dps gain to life surge > Chaos thrust. Like anything below 390 SKS iirc?

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You can do this all the way up until 411 SS with a latency below 50ms if I remember my math correctly. 390-400 is the max for people from the EU (like myself).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Been practicing CD timing on a dummy just now.

I also noticed if I Bfb before the 1st chaos, the bfb runs out just 1 second or so before my second Full Thrust combo finishes. 509 skill speed. Is there a target SSpeed I should aim for so I can get a Bfb to be stacked for Chaos, Phleb, first, and second Thrust combo?

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In general, stacking Skill Speed on DRG is not a great thing since it tends to cause chaos thrust to clip the last tick of the DoT, losing most of the DPS you gain from the skill speed to begin with. The most widely used BiS for DRG uses no Skill Speed AT ALL!
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O6PM

There is one BiS list that uses flint caviar and some skill speed gear, but it does not take into account DoT clipping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

In general, stacking Skill Speed on DRG is not a great thing since it tends to cause chaos thrust to clip the last tick of the DoT, losing most of the DPS you gain from the skill speed to begin with. The most widely used BiS for DRG uses no Skill Speed AT ALL!
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O6PM

There is one BiS list that uses flint caviar and some skill speed gear, but it does not take into account DoT clipping.

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Yah, me and EMX sorted this issue out already last year:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...cussion_dervy/

You'll also have DoT clipping with 464+ SS and Selene Buff out.

"3) The DPS gain from this is very minimal, by my calculation it is 7.2 potency/minute (.1125 pot/sec), which is a very small amount of DPS "
still very interesting ^^