Returning player, melee DPS questions (2.05 > Present)

I've been looking at the various threads, but too much time seems to have passed to eke out a solid answer on my own so maybe folks could set straight some questions I have.


What became of the Dragoon?
When I used to play Dragoon were popular albeit for all the wrong reasons. However a good Dragoon could still lay down a huge amount of DPS, far exceeding ranged DPS classes in most boss fights, second only to monks. (Even then, DRG's had more "robust" damage output, being less susceptible to mechanical interruption than MNK)

Now people tell me Dragoons are "useless", and nobody'll give you the time of day if you roll dragoon, what changed? Were they nerfed in some way, or did Ninja simply render them irrelevant?


What is Ninja's "thing"
A brief examination of the Ninja skills suggests they have attack chains, a bit like a DRG, but with less off-GCD's, plus they have their "Ninjitsu" system, which looks like a gimmicky way of casting.

What do Ninja's bring to the table that sets them apart from Monks and Dragoons in a practical sense?

DRG was really bad in FCoB compared to double MNK or MNK + NIN, but they got a buff and now they're on equal footing again.

Ninja's main focus is their mudras - keeping track of when to use what is key to optimizing your DPS. Other than that, they have access to Goad (TP regen single target), a slashing debuff when there's no WAR around, and Trick Attack which is a raid wide +DPS for a short period of time. Standard damage combo + DoTs otherwise.

So it's more of a lingering prejudice than an actual flaw in the class at present?

I should probably go give Ninja a good try at any rate, see if it maybe grows on me as melee DPS alt class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

1) What became of the Dragoon?

2) What is Ninja's "thing"
What do Ninja's bring to the table that sets them apart from Monks and Dragoons in a practical sense?

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1) DRG was behind other melee classes, and fell really far behind when NIN was first implemented; however, since then they have been buffed and are currently VERY viable in end game raiding. My Static uses a DRG (me), BRD, BLM, MNK dps setup. DRG still has a lingering reputation as a noob DPS class, but they are very strong right now, easily matching the DPS output of NIN and only slightly behind MNK.

2) NIN is a very solid DPS class that has almost no positional attacks, making them very easy to use in end game raiding. NIN has just as much DPS as DRG and they have very good utility with Goad and Trick Attack. While NIN utility IS better than DRG, this is completely nullified if a BRD is present in the party (AND ALMOST EVERY end game static uses a BRD)

Basically the DRG and NIN utility comparison looks like this:
If there is a BRD in the party: NIN=DRG
If there is not a BRD in the party: NIN>DRG

So the buffs to DRG, combined with the extremely melee friendly FCoB mechanics, have made DRG VERY viable. Though NIN is excellent as well. All 3 melee classes are currently in great places as far as balance as concerned.

As others have said, drgs got buffed. They are very good if played properly.

The hardest part about ninja is juggling two rotations. I main it now in endgame and I gotta admit, I find it more fun and slightly more challenging than when I played mnk or drg even though they don't have any positionals. They also only have a few less ogcd ' s than drg and more than mnk. Mudras are an interesting addition to the game but if you have high latency problems, then the class may not be for you. Mudras are very critical to nin dps and are a big loss in dps if you miss them. People can literally see the dps decreasing just by missing one jutsu in a rotation by a significant amount each time. To me the hardest part about ninja is focusing for an entire fight with what comes next in both the physical and jutsu rotations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

So it's more of a lingering prejudice than an actual flaw in the class at present?

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At this point that's all it is. Though ninja also has it's own stigma. Most of the raids I do anymore has someone keeping a "Dead Ninja" counter if there's any number of ninja's in the raid. Once the position locks from drg got removed things got easier to build and maintain DPS.

That's pretty much the things about the ninja. I took my ninja to ilvl 112 and came to a realization that it's not for me due to latency which I could not play the job to its full potential. To me drg and ninja r on equal ground both slightly behind monks, I guess monks will still b top dps due to game mechanics they have to deal with.

On the note for ninjas, the importance of Ninja is not in rotation, but utilizing whats available to you and becomes an issue of priority (In most cases). If your GCD's are not being used when they are available, that's a dps loss. If you aren't using Ninjitsus when they are off cool down, that's a dps loss. Not getting Backstab bonus for Trick attack? DPS loss.

That also doesn't cover, clipping your own dots, or having another ninja DE over yours or the other way around, which includes Warriors Storm's Eye.