Since when has vote kicked been allowed for these things?

Contacted GM, and apparently it is perfectly fine and acceptable to vote kick for:

- Player disputes (of any kind)
- Differing game styles
- Watching cutscenes
- Boss tactics
- Using equipment they don't approve of

The GM also advised me to discuss things with the group leader prior to joining the group.

Which I clearly joined by DF.

Can these GMs please:

a) Be educated as to how to DF works, and
b) Instructed that kicking people for those reasons is NOT okay.

How can I recommend a Final Fantasy game where you will be kicked for watching cutscenes in DF?

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Originally Posted by CaptainGriffen

Can these GMs please:

a) Be educated as to how to DF works, and
b) Instructed that kicking people for those reasons is NOT okay.

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Unfortunately, for the most part these GMs will happily explain to you there is nothing they can/will do. They've explained that players can mostly kick each other for whatever reason they please, even those not included in the vote kick system.

There are a few exceptions. If it's to deny you loot or for watching cutscenes, you may have a case and should contact a GM.

sadly SE never take these vote kick abuses seriously. I reported some of the cases, GM came to talk to me and say they'll do something.

then I follow the guy I reported on the lodestone to see if he's gonna get suspended but nothing happen.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Unfortunately, for the most part these GMs will happily explain to you there is nothing they can/will do. They've explained that players can mostly kick each other for whatever reason they please, even those not included in the vote kick system.

There are a few exceptions. If it's to deny you loot or for watching cutscenes, you may have a case and should contact a GM.

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Except the GM explicitly stated that you can vote kick for watching cutscenes, and to resolve player disputes (which would include loot disputes).

I assume that if the majority of the group clicks yes they assume that the group has its reasons for wanting the player removed, and it doesn't really matter why. Which in theory is pretty sound.

Until you realize that most people just mash yes without even reading or caring why the vote kick is being initiated.

Sounds like that GM got something confused. Maybe he thought you joined in PF or something?

From what I've always been aware, kicking for watching cutscenes, or for being new to the instance in DF have always been considered vote kick abuse. I'm a little confused about that one.

However, the other points you mentioned. Player disputes, I'm not gonna want to keep someone in party if all they can do is pick fights with the other players, refuse to do things, etc. that's not fair to the group. Differing play styles and boss tactics, unfortunately it's majority rule on these because if you're repeatedly wiping because you don't want to follow their tactics that's not fair to them either. Using equip they don't approve of is a gray area because newer players tend to be undergeared with class appropriate gear, but who wants to zone into an instance with a tank/healer spirit bonding crafting gear? No one.

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Originally Posted by CaptainGriffen

Except the GM explicitly stated that you can vote kick for watching cutscenes, and to resolve player disputes (which would include loot disputes).

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Nah, kicking someone, so he doesnt get the loot, is pretty much the only reason the "do not abuse" text in the window exists..

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Originally Posted by Evangela

sadly SE never take these vote kick abuses seriously. I reported some of the cases, GM came to talk to me and say they'll do something.

then I follow the guy I reported on the lodestone to see if he's gonna get suspended but nothing happen.

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You do not SERIOUSLY expect someone to get suspended for a one time vote kick abuse do you? LOL..

SE needs to take a stand on "player disputes" and "different playstyles". Ie. pick a side and clearly define what DF is for - whether it's anyone's personal speedrun/spiritbonding tool or if it's meant for players to be able to experience game content in full as it was intended. Because most problems seem to stem from the lack of these specifications, and until they man up and get it out there (as they should have in the beginning, in my opinion), these problems won't go away.

It sucks but people are people. Haters gonna hate, & ain'ters gonna ain't.

A lot of the points have grey areas where it WOULD be warranted, though

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- Player disputes (of any kind)

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Pretty cut and dry and I really don't get why people think this shouldn't be there. If you're not getting along with somebody, why in the hell should you be forced to work with them? It boggles my mind that people don't get this. We're a team, and if we're not acting like a team for something this basic, then the rogue element should be dismissed from the team.

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- Differing game styles

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This becomes a problem when it overlaps with the first point, but can also hedge into other areas too. Again, you're a team.

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- Watching cutscenes

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This is the grayest area. While sure watching cutscenes as intended is fine, there are some cutscenes that require player input to progress. Watching a cutscene but not progressing them (i.e. going afk and expecting them to finish on their own) is grounds for holding up the group. It's considered a dick move for other reasons, though, and you'll notice that they haven't repeated the mistake with praetorium and castrum because of that.

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- Boss tactics

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This overlaps with the second point and I believe falls under incompetence, which they've said is reason for kicking someone too. And again you're a team. Teams should be working together.

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- Using equipment they don't approve of

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Another very gray area. But basically, if your tank is decked out in patrician's gear, you should reserve the right to kick him.