Nin vs. Brd

The nerfing of nin has me thinking - what if SE\\'s intention is for NIN to share the same spot as BRD in a party as the \\\\'utility\\\\' dps?

DPS - Nin has much higher dps than Brd, even in mechanics heavy fight

Boosting others DPS - Nin has TA vs Brd\\\\'s foe requiem. 10% dmg increase for 4 dps + 2 tanks for 1/6th of the fight vs 10% magic damage resistance for 1 to 2 caste

TP boost - Ninja can goad 1 player every 180s while Bard can increase TP of entire party with Army Paeon

MP boost - Nin has no MP restoration ability while Bard has Ballad

Silence/Stun : Both Nin and Brd can silence. Nin can stun but not Brd

AoE dmg: Brd porbably edges out Nin on this one

LB - Nin LB is much more useful than Brd

TLDR: If the party can manage a fight without MP issues for healers and has only 1 melee dps, I think it is feasible to swap the brd for a ninja and arrive at say, a MNK NIN SMN BLM composition

What are your thoughts?

Not possible yet, most FCOB requires ballad at some point. Until SE puts in a red mage in with the MP version of Goad... we are stuck with bards. An alternative would be to give Dragoons an invigorate trait that gives an AoE 100 TP like someone suggested in another thread of mine.

But due to that one battle dev, Yoshi-P mentioned at the start of 2.0 that has a hard-on for monk, seems to be getting his way. Monk is the baby and they seem to be dead set on having fights in which they reign supreme. Thus heaven forbid other melee dps be as useful or as strong as Monk.

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Originally Posted by Hippo

TP boost - Ninja can goad 1 player every 180s while Bard can increase TP of entire party with Army Paeon

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Ninja can't goat himself while Bard can. Ninja already have problems with TP and it'll most probably become even worse after 2.45 fix.
So no, nin is not self-sufficient, unlike bard in TP restoration

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Originally Posted by Felessan

Ninja can't goat himself

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Would be a funny alternative to occur for messing up Mudras.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

Ninja can't goat himself while Bard can. Ninja already have problems with TP and it'll most probably become even worse after 2.45 fix.
So no, nin is not self-sufficient, unlike bard in TP restoration

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How about a Ninx2 Blmx2 setup?

Nin goad each other
10% dmg increase for 33% of the fight
Blm unleaseh hell when TA is up

6 NIN, infinite Trick Attack, Goad for everyone.

:D

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

6 NIN, infinite Trick Attack, Goad for everyone.

:D

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And then the healers cry.

If you're going to have two casters, why not just have a bard and a ninja? Foe's + trick attack is very nice. In addition, unless I'm mistaken, Foe's affects some of the ninja attacks.

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Originally Posted by Hippo

What are your thoughts?

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My thoughts are: Unless you want NIN to replace BRD in handling all of the movement-heavy mechanics then you won't see this come to fruition. I'm not too far into FCoB yet and I won't watch a video until I have at least attempted a turn. That being said, before nerfs, would you have wanted a NIN to kite the T7 renauds? Would you have wanted a NIN to get the T8 tethers away from the group, or break away from the boss every time you were needed to proc a tower?

A large part of BRD "utility" I think is always left out of what people perceive as helpful to the whole group. In many fights, BRD is the DPS that allows the other 3-4 DPS to (for the most part) mindlessly focus on doing damage, outside of the mandatory telegraph dodging. We allow the rest of the DPS to attain their maximum potentials for fights because we normally carry the weight of everyone's lives on our shoulders. In some fights, BRD's role is even tougher than Healer/Tank. Maybe not tougher, but high awareness is absolutely needed. In turn 8, pre-nerfs I would handle tethers, brainjack, proc'ing towers, proc'ing bombs, low priority on ballistic missiles, and help with allagan field callouts. I'm not saying NIN couldn't do all of this, however NIN will lose DPS uptime. A good BRD will not.

Like I said, I don't know how many mechanics there are like this in FCoB, only that there really isn't any like this in turn 10. But unless SE stops making mechanics that statics will lean on BRD's to handle so the rest of the team can breathe a bit easier and focus more on their primary roles in the fight, I don't think you will ever see a NIN outright "replace" a BRD in a static situation.


Now if they create another DPS who can DPS with free range of motion, may bring less utility but higher DPS than you might start seeing the duo of MNK/BRD replaced with NIN/??? in the future if the DPS ceiling is higher, but if SE does their job balancing correctly than this shouldn't be as much of a replacement, as it would be a viable alternative.

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Originally Posted by Ronove

If you're going to have two casters, why not just have a bard and a ninja? Foe's + trick attack is very nice. In addition, unless I'm mistaken, Foe's affects some of the ninja attacks.

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That's correct. I haven't played NIN, so I might be wrong with the name of the skill (Raiton?) but we were farming T6 the other night and NIN told me his Raiton crit for like 3-400 more damage when I had Foe up. I don't know how many of its other mudras are affected, only the real high potency one. I think he said he hit for 1900 with that move when affected by Foe.

Okies seems from the response to this thread that Brd is THE only irreplaceable dps in a raid party