Echo at the start for other content like Coil?

I don't know how it is on other data centers, but whenever I actually do try to DF something, like Ramuh EX, people will usually leave after a wipe or two before echo even goes into full effect. Considering the content that is supposed to be "hard" has echo immediately, I don't see why the other old content needs to go through several extended wipes to get to that point.


It is really annoying when I know what I'm doing but can't control everyone else, and echo can help but people don't generally stick around even when at times progress is being made. People talking about how trivialized Second Coil is now makes me question why the old Extremes shouldn't be easily DFable this late in the game. It sure isn't helping people that DO need to learn the content, because people are leaving after a few wipes anyway.


Before someone mentions using PF, it has it's own problems. "Farm" groups having someone who hasn't cleared. "Clear" groups having someone who's never even attempted it. I've had plenty of experience with bad PF groups for SCoB (pre-echo) and Shiva EX as is.