Pugilist really needs to be re-worked. Right now it feels really bland.

Since ive started playing FFXIV, I have been fascinated with the idea of a Pugilist. Asking around in game and doing some extensive research it seems the PUG is nothing more than something that is lack luster and mediocre at best. Now before someone bites my head off let me back up my argument and hopefully I will learn something about the PUG that will make me stick with it. Here we go.

PUG from what im told is supposed to be a Damage Dealing class but on the other side of the Spectrum it is supposed to be a Tank class.

PUG as a Damage Dealer doesnt stack up the damage output that a Archer or Lancer yield because of how the PUG is built. ARC does more static damage as well as having very effective weapon skills and range that would make them very viable for a party to have. LNC also has the ability to deal alot of damage very quickly and makes it viable for a part as well especially with the ability to support the party on top of its own damage with the added effects of its weapon skills. PUG can daze to my knowledge and can also lower the accuracy of the target but that doesnt seem good enough to want them in parties by most standards.

PUG as a Tank doesnt really make much sense only because as a PUG abilities that help you keep hate and generate much more of it are learned however PUG lacks defense increasing abilities. Gladiators receive abilities that increase their defense rating on top of reducing damage from all other sources, not to mention that they can also raise their resistances. The only trade off I can see is that GLD doesnt really have high evasion but with their natural stat growth that doesnt even really seem to be an issue.

PUG abilities all around seem to imply that they should tank but even then they are not good enough to be main tanks by any means and are better suited as off tanks, many of the weapons skills although costing only 250 tp require that you evade and attack. much like a boxer who "sticks and moves" but in the event you cannot evade an attack you dont appear to be all that built to withstand taking a couple hits which would make it harder for healers.

Honestly it feels as though PUG is there only to be useful if the Main tank drops or is needed to change tanks so that heals can be administered and the party flow kept going. Some might argue that the PUG gets abilities to increase evasion, now that is fine however the buff disappears after evading one attack and hence doesnt really contribute to a defense of the PUG tanking and the cool downs are far too long to be considered useful other than saving your own skin and even then its not a guaranteed evade it is merely increased chance to.

PUG damage dealing is almost a joke because it feels as if the only real damage contribution move comes from Victimize and even then its attack power increase is based on X where X is the number of enfeebling effects on the target. the implementation of Auto-Attack has done nothing but cripple the PUG in many ways because when ARC and LNC hit harder than they do normally and at just about the same rate PUG is virtually un-desirable. PUG feels as though they shouldnt do too much damage and should be able to attack at a fast rate, even from a logical stand point you can "swing with your fist quicker than you can lunge with a spear and much more frequently at that".

Now I understand that things are getting worked on and are made to be an overall better experience for the players but I just personally feel that PUG as it currently stands is really lack luster when the other Disciples of War outshine it in just about every way, and that is why I say that it needs a re-work. Or do i not give the class enougn credit?

Let me Know

PGL are situationally better tanks than GLA if the enemy attacks are slow and/or the enemy spams weaponskills that can be evaded (EG deepvoid slave). They have a stun counter which delays the enemy attack while featherfoot is on cooldown. Stacking featherfoot with LNC's diversion lets you keep rotating between the two skills, so you never get hit.
PGL are better damage dealers than GLA so they will keep hate more easily.

Another situation is if you are fighting a group of weak mobs and 1 strong mob. PGL are very likely to evade attacks from the weak mobs and be able to keep the strong mob permanently stunned.

Other than those situations PGL cannot tank as well as GLA or deal as much damage as ARC or LNC, but it can do both at the same time.

PGL is a good class. It can DD well, can support as hate controller and can tank. The thing about PGL is that its a tricky class...straight DDing (like ARC does) doesn't work well since most of damage boosts from PGL are very situational, like blindside and discerning eye. But once you learn the malicious way of PGL DD, you will see it can do pretty well the DD role.

But about tanking you need to keep in mind this game has 2 tanking styles (had 3 until 1.18, when MRD died).

GLA can tank like FFXI's PLD, based on high defense, damage mitigation actions and a large amount of enmity generation actions.

PGL can tank like FFXI's NIN, based on high evasion, damage negating actions and multiple retaliation actions for enmity.

MRD could tank like FFXI's WAR, based on high DPS, native increased enmity generation of actions and large HP pool. But this does not exist anymore...now if a MRD wanna tank he needs to use one of the above styles.

So, as PGL, you need to fit its way of tanking or it just won't do a good job since its not as flexible as MRD regarding gear and actions (MRD has native tanking actions that fit both GLA and PGL way of tanking)...but once you understand how it works, you can tank pretty well.

see these are the things ive been needing to hear from people real discussions because in game i cannot get groups for much of anything. and it seems hard to grab a healer for our group as is my friend plays a GLD and my brother is a LNC and im trying to DD as a PUG. but I do hope people keep these meaningful insights comming

Albeit I use diversion, its cooldown is huge so it can't really be cycled into your evasion cycle. I also use mrds foresight 2 in my cycle. It only works against normal attacks but its got a very short cooldown. If feather foot got 2 "shadows" it would help us alot. If that did happen it would have to become pug specific.

I like pugilist as it is currently, tanking as a pugilist post 1.18 is very fun.

Another fun role I like, but I can understand it would be difficult in a pick up group, or un-coordinated linkshell is that of the new off tank role. Which is more than simply picking up the mob if the tank dies. Post 1.18 in this role you are an accomplice target basically, the main tank accomplices you as a primary way of building enmity, and you accomplice others as a means of reducing their aggro. In this role I can do much more damage than I can when tanking, but I can also providing huge boosts of hate (as an off tank you can be in red or high yellow when accomplice hits, other classes should not be spending so much time at these thresholds during finesse encounters) to the main tank increasing the ability of the group as a whole. I think no other class does this better than us.

LNC and MRD are both great as well and I'm not trying to disparage them, I just think that pugilist have a unique advantage with their mix of survivability, evasion, and enmity generation on top of their damage that gives them a specific dominant role in parties.

This might change in later patches with monk I think we might get more damage and less off tanking ability (like XI). But for now I think that offtanking or tanking is our niche, but we can be a very decent pure melee DD too, it's just realistically for a min/max parties I agree archers or lancers are probably better for that specific role.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Albeit I use diversion, its cooldown is huge so it can't really be cycled into your evasion cycle. I also use mrds foresight 2 in my cycle. It only works against normal attacks but its got a very short cooldown. If feather foot got 2 "shadows" it would help us alot. If that did happen it would have to become pug specific.

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I hope they change featherfoot 2 to 2 evades and make it PGL exclusive while keeping featherfoot 1 the same.

Its almost possible to tank as a PGL, just need 1 more dodge
Heres an ARC tanking the ogre from the R45 dungeon using featherfoot : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKyLi1vbek
If an ARC can do it, a PGL can do better.

im looking forward to monk making this class big. I loved pgl before the patch but am prefering lnc at the moment. But my heart still says pgl

i agree featherfoot should be pug only and 2-4 shadows