Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

Each raid had two difficulties that someone could engage them in: normal or hard. Both were challenging and would wipe unprepared parties. There was no lore or story difference between the two. They literally were just two different difficulties for the raid.

Hard modes would give items that were slightly more powerful and had different colored skins, but not so much more powerful that they become a requirement of progression. A person who completed the normal modes for their full normal mode set would be prepared to move onto the next content patch when it came out just the same as the players who did the hard mode.

Normal modes were nothing like Crystal Tower in terms of ease. They posed a significant challenge to players, but the way they were tuned required less time wasted wiping than what the current Coil difficulty is set at, which is more akin to hard mode. If we were to put the numbers of the gear acquired into perspective, it would be like ilvl 105 gear when Syrcus Tower and 2nd Binding Coil are the current raids.

Please also consider the fact that by the time Wrath of the Lich King had come around, addons providing clear indications of boss abilities being activated were mandatory in virtually all raid groups. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that. Addons that gave notifications of boss mechanics were mandatory for raiding. That kind of says something about what the general audience feels about having to constantly look at the boss's health bar for a cast bar to appear. Individual players can say what they will, claiming that they like to watch for cast bars, but its pretty obvious from how prolific addons of that type are in the genre that most people find it incredibly unpleasant.

I am making this suggestion because the end game community during Wrath of the Lich King was far less volatile and more helpful than what I am experiencing here in your game. I would like the community to be able to enjoy the story as it happens, provided they are willing to give their all. Unfortunately, the current design means the peak effort of only a few players will lead to that result.

Edit: And for those of you endorsing paying gil for clears... No one pays for a game to be walked through it, thank you very much.

{Yes, Please.}

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Players are rapidly approaching content walls that leave them nothing to do in the game except enter extremely hostile top-tier raiding environments. Something needs to exist between no-effort one-shot story mode content and 'hardcore only' raids. Not only will it improve the lifespan of the game, it will give players an environment that encourages learning and growing over constant browbeating.

I agree as well. I left the coil scene behind because it was too time demanding for me, but at the same time, I'd like to experience the story and some of the gear (as suggested lower level gear than a harder version of coil).

I'm not saying a faceroll "easy mode" for coil, just something that's a little more forgiving and maybe not progress locked. Savage Coil exists for those that want the extreme challenge, why not make current coil "Hard Mode" and add a "Normal Mode" for players that can't commit their entire play times to learning and beating the current raid content?

And for those that would nay say, again, I'm not asking for the SAME gear as coil. Just similar look, lower stats/ilevel and a slightly easier version.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Edit: And for those of you endorsing paying gil for clears... No one pays for a game to be walked through it, thank you very much.

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My gil bank account says hi.

As a WoW player, I can attest to this. WotLK's overall dungeon/raid difficulty was spot on when it was current content. Even with addons, execution was still key in dealing with mechanics. Alot of FFXIV's difficulty doesn't even come from that, it's paying attention to the cast bar or focus bar (T5 comes to me). Fights like Leviathan and Garuda I really enjoy; The numbers are tuned just fine for the recommended Ilvl to beat the enrage timers, the dives and slam are indicated, and no small-details that can result in a wipe if its missed.


On the other hand though, you don't want to overstep to the point that there's no challenge at all (like WoW did in MoP expansion). But that's where things like Heroic (Savage) mode comes in...although from what I heard people are suspecting that it's not even possible to meet Savage difficulty's numerical requirements with current gear (could use a citation for this though).

Ok, im attempting to be open-minded here. I have beaten T1-5 before the echo got to 20% (or is it at 15% now? i forget). So i can sympathize with feeling like some mechanics aren't telegraphed in a overt way and thus feel more like a cheap shot as opposed to a challenge for the average player. However, with threads like these (before getting to 20 pages of the same back a forth) I would love to attempt to hash this out and create a conversation drawing up just exactly HOW the normal mode fight would play out. I assume we are talking just on T5 here, with hopes of extrapolating this to the future raids. So lets start at Turn 5.

Maybe for her Divebombs (since Conflags can be outgeared and dealt with), a thick red line is drawn where she intends to dive. She targets a random person, the line shows up, Pulses (the animation starts in the middle of the line and radiates outward) twice for about 2 secs a pulse and then she dives.

So basically, Second Coil at i110 armour, i115 weapon and Savage Second Coil at i115 armour, i120 weapon? Is this what you mean?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

So basically, Second Coil at i110 armour, i115 weapon and Savage Second Coil at i115 armour, i120 weapon? Is this what you mean?

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No, because its not a gearing issue. Also no, because he was releasing that in response to reports of people beating content really fast like Blue Garter. Savage is content for the top 1% of players, and no one but that 1% is really going to care.

What I'm suggesting is for the middle man gamer, or the top 20-30% of gamers. There is nothing like that in the game currently. Crystal Tower is equivalent to WoW raid finder, which is just a game of hit the pinata. Coil is already at Wrath of the Lich King hard mode difficulty, so that is content for maybe the top 5-10%.

Yeah, I don't quite see how what you're asking for isn't already Coil & Savage Coil (except that Savage Coil only exists for epeen and not for anything useful).

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yeah, I don't quite see how what you're asking for isn't already Coil & Savage Coil (except that Savage Coil only exists for epeen and not for anything useful).

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Let's just say that comparing the raids from Wrath of the Lich King to FFXIV's current raids is like comparing the finest food and drink in the world to a fairly good sit down restaurant.

It was raiding that had little deficiency, giving a genuine end game raid experience that both presented a challenge, yet did not go so far in that challenge that it could not be done in a reasonable time for a working fellow. People went in, wiped, laughed together, and then walked out feeling good. And the more hardcore players? They walked in, wiped, laughed together, and then walked out feeling good. And by wiping, I mean wiping a lot. Not wiping like people wipe in crystal tower. That is like the raid finder which was introduced to WoW in Mists of Panderia (shivers).

FFXIV's end game is divided into the extremes. Either very easy or very hard. There is no in between that preserves the hardship and reward of genuine raiding. Wrath proved that it is still possible to give that experience to people and not lower the difficulty to the point of just handing things out.