I just wanna doublecheck something (BLM)

I'm leveling a BLM (lv37 now) and was kicked from a Brayflox Longstop dungeon run because someone in the party who said he had an i94 BLM got angry at me; he said that if I cared about my DPS I would be using Fire II on packs of three or more mobs. I commented back that it was my understanding that unless there was 4 or more mobs, using single target attacks was higher DPS, and then he vote-kicked me from the group.

I'm about 90% certain he was wrong, but never let it be said I don't confirm things. How many mobs should there be before I start using Fire II?

EDIT: I'm torn between thinking this post is really stupid for even bothering, because the guy was pretty extraordinarily bad, and yet at the same time, I refuse to ever insist I can't learn something new, because that's how I stop getting better, and I am fairly new to BLM anyway and apparently the other two party members agreed with him, so maybe I am wrong?

At your level, I believe Fire II is better on pack of three or more mobs as it's 100 potency on 3 mobs (effectively 300 potency) compared to 150 potency from Fire I. It would have been 2 mobs or more (200 vs 150 potency) if the mana cost was the same but Fire II cost more than Fire iirc in the ball park of a bit more than 4/3 the mana cost. DPS doesn't matter at the level you're at so idk why this guy vote kicked you. Not like you can't finish Brayflox just doing single target. At 34, which is the level Brayflox sync you to, you should start with Fire III then proceed to Fire IIs on packs of mobs but like I said, it doesn't really matter since the rotation changes up at 50 anyway.

To elaborate, Fire = 150 Potency and 2.5s Cast Time. Fire II = 100 Potency and 3s Cast Time. This means Fire is 60 P/s and Fire II is 33.3 P/s so casting Fire II on at least two mobs will be higher DPS than Fire (In the short run. MP cost will affect how much damage you do for an extended period). This changes at level 44 when you pick up the Firestarter trait which gives you a 40% to proc a free instant Fire III. At this point, you need to hit more mobs with Fire II to make it worthwhile.

If the party as a whole, or at least the tank, were ok with burning down several mobs, than yeah, you should use it on three or more mobs. 2 mobs is relatively negligible, and that guy didn't need to make a deal about it on Brayflox Classic. You shouldn't have been kicked over it though... He was just an *^*%&*#. Sorry for your trouble, and hang in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tezzeret

To elaborate, Fire = 150 Potency and 2.5s Cast Time. Fire II = 100 Potency and 3s Cast Time. This means Fire is 60 P/s and Fire II is 33.3 P/s so casting Fire II on at least two mobs will be higher DPS than Fire (In the short run. MP cost will affect how much damage you do for an extended period).

---

Good point; the only major issue is the mana difference; 3 Fire IIs per astral phase vs 5 Fire I (assuming a Fire 3 to get me to Astral II). Though I think I failed to properly mention part of his complaint was that I was using Thunder II on the mobs at the start of the fight instead of going straight into Fire II (Yay half dozen Thundercloud procs?). My general goal in dungeons has always been to try and end each fight at the very end of an Astra phase, so I spend as much time in combat as possible in Astra phase. I think I was thinking I shouldn't use Fire II at that point, because if I used Fire II, I'd have to have a whole extra Umbra Phase per each pack of mobs, and I think I was figuring the DPS loss of Umbra made Fire II on 3 mobs not worthwhile.

I'm... pretty sure the difference, factoring in extra Umbra phase, is reasonably negligible (probably in the range of a 10% difference), and not entirely worth calculating out which is better in low level dungeons since rotation is different at 50 anyway. Besides, as I main a Paladin, I'm not super comfortable dumping full AOE attacks on a level 34 Paladin Tank that doesn't even have Shield Oath yet, that's moderately tricky to hold aggro against even for a skilled and well geared player (and this tank kept losing aggro on tertiary targets to the healer, so I would've just been grabbing ALL THE AGGRO EVER).

Blech, I'm over-thinking this. It's just the second time in 10+ years I've been kicked form a group in an MMO, so it's sorta giving me a weird pseudo-anxiety attack over "WHAT DID I DO WRONG?" Like you said, it's Brayflox, it's not hard, and the rotation does change at 50 because of Flare.

I have a ilvl 90 BLM, so I like to believe I know what I'm talkin' about here.

Fire II is great for mobs of more than 1 (once you're 50 with Flare). Otherwise, you can spam fire 2 I suppose.

Personally, I use fire 2-> flare if running a 50 dungeon. Otherwise, I go single target for 1-2 mobs, and fire 2 to "tenderize" bigger groups. In all reality, it just washes out in lower level dungeons (like Brayflox) so as long as you keep up a rotation of some kind and pew pew, you're good.

Sounds like that other BLM is just an elitist and you shouldn't have been kicked (probably reportable). That said, I don't go for optimal DPS. If they're dying and my mana is flowin one way or the other, then you're doing fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karilyn

I'm leveling a BLM (lv37 now) and was kicked from a Brayflox Longstop dungeon run because someone in the party who said he had an i94 BLM got angry at me; he said that if I cared about my DPS I would be using Fire II on packs of three or more mobs. I commented back that it was my understanding that unless there was 4 or more mobs, using single target attacks was higher DPS, and then he vote-kicked me from the group.

I'm about 90% certain he was wrong, but never let it be said I don't confirm things. How many mobs should there be before I start using Fire II?

EDIT: I'm torn between thinking this post is really stupid for even bothering, because the guy was pretty extraordinarily bad, and yet at the same time, I refuse to ever insist I can't learn something new, because that's how I stop getting better, and I am fairly new to BLM anyway and apparently the other two party members agreed with him, so maybe I am wrong?

---

Hi! I am BLM main too but I won't be answering your question. I just want to point out that you should report them for abusing the votekick. Votekick, currently, is not used for this subject of matter. It's rude to kick someone merely for this. Don't you think so?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umero

Hi! I am BLM main too but I won't be answering your question. I just want to point out that you should report them for abusing the votekick. Votekick, currently, is not used for this subject of matter. It's rude to kick someone merely for this. Don't you think so?

---

It is, and it has been mentioned by the Devs in the forum that it is an abuse of the system (I've seen it somewhere but can't remember exactly where). You two had a difference of opinions, and your opinion got you kicked; which violates your right to free thought and speech, and thus considered harassment. I hope you were able to report them, and the others involved, for it, providing that is exactly how it played out.

Edit: I found the post!!! http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...35#post1769135

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umero

Hi! I am BLM main too but I won't be answering your question. I just want to point out that you should report them for abusing the votekick. Votekick, currently, is not used for this subject of matter. It's rude to kick someone merely for this. Don't you think so?

---

Yeah. I wasn't even being rude. I think what I said was something like "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it only becomes advantageous to use AOEs if there are at least 4 mobs, and that for 3 or less mobs you should stick to single target attacks." (I think this misconception might have been formed out of my main class being PLD and Flash's threat being astonishingly piss terrible) And then it was just all like "You were removed from the group." I've never exactly been known for being a rude person, and I usually pride myself on learning and being the best I can be at all times. So it really gave me a bit of an anxiety overload.

That being said I can't report him as I didn't take down his name, and I wouldn't want to get him in trouble with Square anyway. I've been trying to tell myself that him and the other two party members were friends who queued together and that they had been talking to each other in private about how bad they thought I was, instead of just being upfront and talking to me, and thus they worked up in their minds that I was worse than I actually was. That would mean it wasn't personal and was only just a big misunderstanding. They were right, I was playing badly because I didn't know BLM as well as I thought, and the only misunderstanding was in that they thought I wasn't willing to learn.

The most frustrating part of it was we were literally two pulls away from Aiatar, and both of the last two pulls are 2 mob pulls, so the argument didn't even matter anyway cause there was nothing left to AOE :/

EDIT: That being said, I now realize that Fire II does a lot more damage than I thought it did and I'll start using it on 3 mob pulls if the tank seems to be able to comfortably manage their threat. I'm still... uncomfortable with this, because as a PLD main, I'd prefer if players DoT'd everything then single target downed the mobs one at a time if there's only 3 mobs, not for threat reasons, but just because that feels faster. But if AOE is better then it's better, there's no arguing with that. I should give a deeper look at the AOEs of all the classes I play. (It feels REALLY weird AOEing only 3 mobs. Doesn't feel like an AOE spell in an MMO should be powerful enough for that to be viable.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karilyn

That being said I can't report him as I didn't take down his name, and I wouldn't want to get him in trouble with Square anyway.

---

No. You always want to get these guys in trouble. DPS queues for dungeons are long. Kicking a DPS is not just a trivial inconvenience for said person, it can ruin someone's entire gaming night by making them wait hours for queues to pop, and generating unnecessary hostility in the playerbase. It also has trickle effects into endgame where DPS are extremely defensive to being called out on bad rotations, and generally get away with subpar playing because of it.

Also, you always want to DoT up all the mobs with Thunder II. For lower level BLMs thundercloud procs can hit as hard as Fire III. Your rotation seems fine to me.