Warrior Cross-Class Abilities from Pugilist are Useless 3/3 (Finally! :P)

... but still i don't see any reason for Warrior not having acess to this Keen Flurry parry ability. Regarding Invigorate, Warrior is a tank class that uses a lot of TP when spamming Overpower to aggro and contol mobs so it is my opinion that Warrior should have acess to this ability. For comparison, i don't understand why Bard has Invigorate and Warrior doesn't. Bard has acess to 2 TP regeneration abilties (Invigorate and Army's Paeon) while Warrior has acess to... none. This is very unfair and poorly designed in my opinion. In long boss fights Invigorate could be a life savior ability in the future. For last but not least, since I like to think of Warrior as a tank class that drains HP from their enemies, Life Surge would then again make perfect sense for Warrior to use. Its HP recovery would be similar to Second Wind, but still i can relate more (in Warrior's perspective) to an ability that drains HP from your enemy through an attack that an auto-cure ability like Second Wind.

Fixing it for you.

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Originally Posted by Caesar_Martins

Warrior Cross-Class Abilities from Pugilist are Useless 1/3
Hello Devs, hope this thread reaches you. First of all I would like to congratulate your great work with ARR, i'm enjoying the game very much and I hope you continue to improve the game over the time because it deserves it. Now, to go straight to the point, it is my opinion that Warrior should get cross-class abilities from Lancer and not Pugilist, while continuing to get acess to Gladiator abilites (because overall they are very useful for Warrior, like Flash, Provoke, Convalescence and Awareness, although the latter not so much). It is not my intent to say that Pugilist abilities have no place for Warrior, because Second Wind and Featherfoot are not interely useless: Second Wind can give you a minor help (although negligible) in recovering HP and Featherfoot can be usefull when tanking many mobs and improve one self evasion from those attacks. Still, when comparing Pugilist abilities to Lancer abilities I sincerely don't understand why would you choose Pugilist over Lancer for Warrior. For example, I think Lancer abilities like Keen Flurry, Invigorate and Life Surge would be much more usefull than Second Wind, Featherfoot and Internal Release. Warriors can only mitigate damage from enemies through parry unlike Paladins that can mitigate damage through parry and block, so Keen Flurry would make perfect sense for Warrior since he is a tank and his only way to prevent less damage is by parrying attacks. I don't understand why Lancers have acess to a parry ability and tank roles don't, Lancer and Dragoons are supossed to avoid taking damage, not mitigate it like a tank. I know that for doing solo missions and the main story quests this parry ability can be usefull for Lancers and Dragoons to improve their chances of survival, but still i don't see a viable reason for Warrior not having acess to this parry ability named Keen Flury. Regarding Invigorate, Warrior is a tank class that uses a lot of TP when spamming Overpower to aggro and contol mobs so it is my opinion that Warrior should have acess to this ability. For comparison, i don't understand why Bard has Invigorate and Warrior doesn't. Bard has acess to 2 TP regeneration abilties (Invigorate and Army's Paeon) while Warrior has acess to.. none. This is very unfair and poorly designed in my opinion. In long boss fights Invigorate could be a life savior ability in the future. For last but not least, since I like to think of Warrior as a tank class that drains HP from their enemies, Life Surge would then again make perfect sense for Warrior to use. Its HP recovery would be similar to that of Second Wind, but still i can relate more (in Warrior's perspective) to an ability that drains HP from your enemy through an attack that an auto-cure ability like Second Wind. Well, that's pretty much it, I would really appreciate if you could give it a thought to this matter. Thank you for your attention and keep up the good work. Best regards!

Warrior Cross-Class Abilities from Pugilist are Useless 2/3
Still, when comparing Pugilist abilities to Lancer abilities I sincerely don't understand why would you choose Pugilist over Lancer for Warrior. For example, I think Lancer abilities like Keen Flurry, Invigorate and Life Surge would be much more usefull than Second Wind, Featherfoot and Internal Release. Warriors can only mitigate damage from enemies through parry unlike Paladins that can mitigate damage through parry and block, so Keen Flurry would make perfect sense for Warrior since he is a tank and his only way to prevent less damage is by parrying attacks. I don't understand why Lancers have acess to a parry ability and tank roles don't, Lancer and Dragoons are supossed to avoid taking damage, not mitigate it like a tank. I know that for doing solo missions and the main story quests this parry ability can be usefull for Lancers and Dragoons to improve their chances of survival... (Continues on next thread)

... but still i don't see any reason for Warrior not having acess to this Keen Flurry parry ability. Regarding Invigorate, Warrior is a tank class that uses a lot of TP when spamming Overpower to aggro and contol mobs so it is my opinion that Warrior should have acess to this ability. For comparison, i don't understand why Bard has Invigorate and Warrior doesn't. Bard has acess to 2 TP regeneration abilties (Invigorate and Army's Paeon) while Warrior has acess to... none. This is very unfair and poorly designed in my opinion. In long boss fights Invigorate could be a life savior ability in the future. For last but not least, since I like to think of Warrior as a tank class that drains HP from their enemies, Life Surge would then again make perfect sense for Warrior to use. Its HP recovery would be similar to Second Wind, but still i can relate more (in Warrior's perspective) to an ability that drains HP from your enemy through an attack that an auto-cure ability like Second Wind.

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Man... with Keen Flurry, Blood for Blood, and Invigorate there would literally be no reason to use PLD.

I agree that I think LNC would be a much better fit but I feel like it would be so OP as well lol.

Blood for Blood, Unchained, and Beserk + Infuriate Crit bonus would be some sick burst during OT phases.

So basically it's not that what you're saying is true, but just that you'd like it to be something else instead. OK.

Be happy you at least have 5 useful cross-class skills, quite a few jobs don't. SMN, SCH, PLD, BLM are a lot more limited in choices than WAR.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So basically it's not that what you're saying is true, but just that you'd like it to be something else instead. OK.

Be happy you at least have 5 useful cross-class skills, quite a few jobs don't. SMN, SCH, PLD, BLM are a lot more limited in choices than WAR.

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To be fair, PLD's only sucks because WAR has a lot of shitty moves and for some reason, cure doesn't scale reasonably at all. Not disagreeing though.

I do disagree about SCH getting poor ones. They get protect, swiftcast, stoneskin and cleric's stance. WHM gets E4E, virus (Kinda meh after the nerf if you have a SMN/SCH in the group), and swiftcast. :\

DRG gets kind of screwed though. Internal release and... Mercy Stroke? They have my vote for worst Xclass so far, but I could be forgetting something.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Man... with Keen Flurry, Blood for Blood, and Invigorate there would literally be no reason to use PLD.

I agree that I think LNC would be a much better fit but I feel like it would be so OP as well lol.

Blood for Blood, Unchained, and Beserk + Infuriate Crit bonus would be some sick burst during OT phases.

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I didn't mention Blood for Blood because that ability would be awfull for Warrior. Warrior already receives so many damage, a lot more than Paladin, Blood for Blood would give him 20% +Strength but he would receive 25% +Damage during that period. Paladin is a tank that sacrifices his attack power for more defense while Warrior is a tank that regenerates small part of his HP through his attacks and the healers cures, while sacrificing his attack power aswell. In stead of Blood for Blood I mentioned Life Surge which is an ability that lets you drain hp from your enemy from the next attack you execute on him, which fits perfectly in Warrior's identity.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So basically it's not that what you're saying is true, but just that you'd like it to be something else instead. OK.

Be happy you at least have 5 useful cross-class skills, quite a few jobs don't. SMN, SCH, PLD, BLM are a lot more limited in choices than WAR.

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If you read my post correctly I said that Pugilist abilities are not entirely useless, just when comparing to Lancer's arsenal abilities it makes a lot more sense to choose Lancer over Pugilist. I never played with a Disciple of Magic so I wouldn't know about their cross-class abilities but if you think they are not useful you should definitely make your opinion and thoughts stated in the forums so that someday the Devs can look into it and improve the game in the Disciples of Magic perspective. Sincerely, what's the point of having cross-class abilities if a lot of them are not useful to their jobs in question? I didn't post this thread just because I would "like it better" for Warrior to have Lancer abilities, I presented arguments to validate my opinion. If you don't agree that's an entirely different story, but of course you're free to give your opinion in return on the matter.

at least they have some minimal amount of utility. who wants skull sunder or savage blade as cross class abilities?

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Man... with Keen Flurry, Blood for Blood, and Invigorate there would literally be no reason to use PLD.

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B4B I sort of agree, but Keen Flurry would just be an actual useful cooldown and Invigorate would just make being TP starved more manageable... though honestly I've never ran out of TP during any fight, especially where I could liberally use IB. I suppose Invigorate would allow us to actually use Fracture, though.

B4B would be a bit insane. Dunno how they could manage to balance that. Obviously not amazing for tanking, but for Off Tanking that'd be a really strong cooldown.

It would definitely make more sense to have the two-hand weilding armorclad DD as a crossclass, rather than the kicking leatherwearer. With that said, I'm afraid it'd be just a tad bit too powerful.

Keen Flurry would of course be incredibly strong, Invigorate less so after the 2.1 fixes but still very useful. BfB would boost our already (slightly) higher DPS further beyond that of PLD, while being downright nastily insane in PvP. I doubt it's going to happen, unless tweaking in future patches would allow it. For example, I wouldn't mind having a couple of our skills slightly nerfed to make way for better cross classing.

Although they might be saving the Lancer for a future DD job for Marauder?