Speed Run question

Hey guys.

So... Just curious. What iLv. should a party have to ideally start speed runs for WP, AK, etc...?

I (SCH) only recently got my first DL piece (Healing pants) with the rest as Warlock gear. Last night's WP run, my tank (WAR in AF+DL body) insisted that our gear is "good enough", but he was already half dead before running to the 3rd group. I tried to toss him some heals, and aside from a Swiftcast+Adlo, he was too far ahead and out of range. He eventually died with all the mobs wailing on him at 25%HP. I did my best to keep him up, but even 3 Lustrates didn't do it. Rather than deciding to slow down the run, he insults me, then leaves the group.

Was it me? If I was geared for that, but failed, I can accept that I'll just need to get better.

I have been a tank. Tanks require the most gear so they can survive and you can't easily survive more than 5 mobs with AF+DL body. 1 piece of darklight is too weak to speed run. If a random tank wants to speed run, they should be iLvL 60 minimum so they can pull 10 enemies or less and actually live. I don't know what to say on your healer gear but it appears like your tank wasn't geared enough.

ilvl 70 is best. Full darklight is not hard to obtain now-a-days. Tanks need it for thr max HP and healers need it for the healing potency and spell speed for holy spam.

Low geared healer's in WP have a tough time because of all the Tanks that want speed runs but can't survive with the heals that can happen. 2 of my 3 ragequits in this game have been over tanks in WP that gather up a bunch of mobs and die... repeatedly... usually saying something like "Heal Harder" or "Concentrate on me" or "Learn to Play"!

Look tanks! We're healing you as best as we can with level 50 gear!

Since I've geared up I'm about at the point where I can carry a low geared team through a speed run as a WHM. But sadly, I don't think the tanks always notice the glowing relic +1 and they assume every Healer can keep them alive with 10 mobs on them...

So... this might be where all the uber healers respond, "Learn to play! I can keep a newbie naked tank alive while I'm naked in WP! In fact, I do WP Speedo runs!"

It sounds like your tank was somewhat under geared. It's pretty easy to tell with some certainty how well a speed run will go - in terms of tank gear - from how much HP they lose on the first run. Here are a few things I do to keep things reasonable on SCH.

1.) Make sure to start the pull with Ad Loquium up.
2.) If the tank is too far ahead, don't be afraid to hit sprint to catch up, your TP isn't doing anything else for you.
3.) First thing you should do is put up Eye for an Eye as soon as the tank stops, this will give you time to settle into a rhythm.
4.) If you are confident you won't need swiftcast for the first boss, Swiftcast -> Shadowflare can go a long way to keeping the attacks slow and steady (Shadowflare's slow effect is often under-appreciated).
5.) At that point, it just comes down to how good your heal-spam rotation is. I like the tried and true Ad Loquium -> Physick -> repeat until below 50% HP, then Lustrate.

As a general rule, if the tank is losing more than 40% of their HP on the pull and has lost more than 60% by the time I get to them, I start to get worried. Now, my gear is much better than yours, but snarky-post-above aside, I honestly do believe that with good preparation, confidence, and practice, a SCH can speed run with relatively low iLevel, as long as the tank is correspondingly well geared.

In your situation, I would ask any tank that takes more than 20-30% damage while pulling the first group to the last group to take it slower.

Speed runs depend on tanks gear more than anything else as has already been said. A couple of times as a tank I have been in a DF group and the healer was a fresh 50. One guy had pink accessories and 50/55 gear, he had done WP a few times and I made sure to ask the party is it OK if I SR (very important) they all said they were happy to try, so we did. Now I am not claiming we pulled everything at once and AOEd it down but we did pretty big pulls and we did it quickly.

Gear is def needed, but tanks who use their CDs can make up for it. If ya get a tank who doesn't use any because, "It is only trash, learn to heal!" then you have a bad tank, and no amount of gear can help them. I have healed a tank in all DL pulling the WP speed run groups, which is prob harder hitting then AK, and had no issue. Now I am nearly all 90 gear, so that can make up for a lower geared tank as well. Manor makes for the best SR now IMO. Only the last hallway is hard to heal, but just cut it into 3 pulls and you should be fine, even pulling more mobs as others die works out.
Sorry for getting off subject, but ya gear is needed most of the time, but a good player who cycles their cool downs can make up for lower gear. Also having low DPS can be an issue as well if the tank and heals are just decently geared. All in all it is best to try SR in a pug, but dont go all nerd rage when the group can't handle it. An extra 10-15 minutes is not gonna kill you to just run it normally.

Your tank will also make a difference. Paladins can sprint when making their mob train since they spam flash to hold hate initially, whereas a warrior needs their tp for overpower. I find usually i70 is a pretty solid number to go by for any role in speed runs. Speed runs are really about how much raw heal power you can push, so if you have a really strong gasp of healing, you can get by with less. Alternately, if you dip into the red zone a lot, or can't keep up the tank, overgearing will go a long ways to reduce healing strain

You can heal speed runs with 50 gear, best thing to do is right after tank stops is cast regen then start with the cure 2 spam... If he is below 1/2 on his hp gauge before he stops then the tank is under geared... Your mp is gonna run really low but you should have enough to finish the fight without ne one dying...

All of the above plus, on top of Shadow Flare, toss in a Maisma II where you can and don't forget to use Rouse for Eos.. that extra +40% healing from her should make it easy to have everything under control.

It's helpful to have all 3 stacks of Aetherflow up and ready as well as Aethflow off of CD and ready to replenish, 6 Lustrates go a long way. Stoneskin is also something that will make life easier though it's a longish grind to get, but negating 10% of the tanks max hp in damage is a very nice thing to have on hand especially in the case of a WAR with high HP.

WHM's have nice big raw heal bombs but your bubbles, Eos and stoneskin (when you get it), along with Shadow Flare, Maisma II and Eye For An Eye will negate much damage and retard mobs to a point that SCH healing/mitigation is terribly potent and, speed runs are quite easy after some practice (and the right group that is attentive and works together).