Do you HAVE to use the job upgrades?

Playing an Arcanist right now, and I am working on a DoT-based "wither and die" character by using cross-class abilities from Conjurer and Thaumaturge (Aero and Thunder). I dunno how well this design works with the Arcanist upgrades Summoner and Scholar though. Possibly Scholar with use of Cleric Stance to swap my Mind for my Intellect plus the 10% potency boost might work though but I wonder how much people would want a DoT damage based Scholar in groups. XD

I am probably wrong but it seems like the job upgrades actually diminish some of the customization the cross-class system offers, since using them locks you into a defined role and reduces cross-class ability.

If I am off or misinterpreting please tell me. XD

To address the first parts, the jobs take what a class is and make it better in that area. DoTs are an acn's bread and butter and you'll still be able to use them, be expected to even, as either/both jobs. You will still find yourself using many of the same abilities and that the jobs give you more to work with, and more potency with all of it.

The jobs do lock you into a role, sort of, sch is very capable of applying DoTs and contributing to overall damage while in cleric's stance. So while you are technically a healer you will still have plenty of opportunities to work some damage. As a smn you'll find that you get to apply even more damage using the DoTs and Fester.

I don't think that you will find yourself missing too many of the cross-class skills that you will no longer have access to. Partly because they won't fit into your spell rotations anymore, and partly because they will be overshadowed by higher level class/job spells/abilities.

You've got the general idea.

If you're soloing or with friends, you can do whatever you like, and go outside the box. Several people in my FC run all-SMN dungeons. At low levels, lots of people form full parties and use ACN as the healer (or tank, with yellow carby) for dungeons.

But with random people, you'll be expected to fulfill the role you're in. Scholar is a healer, ACN and SMN are DPS. They can't queue outside those roles. If you show up to a dungeon as a healer and try to DPS instead, people are not going to be pleased.

They're also not going to be pleased to see an ACN instead of a SMN or SCH much past 30. ACN just isn't as strong a DPS as SMN, or as strong a healer as SCH.

Job crystals increase your stats, first of all.

Also, they give you access to some of the best gear in the game, which can't be equipped on classes.

And then most jobs give vital abilities that outweigh the benefits of cross classing.

Its more effective to go with jobs, but yes, you're correct that the job system diminishes the cross class system. Its because the classes themselves and the cross class system is more a relic of 1.0, and is barely supported in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

But with random people, you'll be expected to fulfill the role you're in. Scholar is a healer, ACN and SMN are DPS. They can't queue outside those roles. If you show up to a dungeon as a healer and try to DPS instead, people are not going to be pleased.

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Although it's true that you're expected to be able to fulfill your class's or job's normal role, sometimes it's useful to have enough cross-class abilities to be adaptable. For instance, in one of the early-game dungeons (I think it was Tam-Tara), I was in a DF group and our healer left shortly after we started. Luckily, one of the Thaumaturges had cross-class abilities from Conjurer so was able to take over as main healer and we made a viable team with two THM and a GLD.

Another time, I was running a dungeon as the group's main healer when we had an almost-wipe at the final boss fight. Three of us (healer, tank, and one of our DPS) died, leaving a lone arcanist to finish off the boss by himself. He really showed off the flexibility of that class by having his carbuncle tank while he alternated healing and DPS well enough to stay alive while he whittled away the boss's remaining HP.

Now both of those examples were from early-game dungeons, which are significantly easier than some of the ones that come up later in the game. But the point was that although you start off focusing on your primary role, it's useful to be able to adapt as necessary. It might be necessary (as in these cases) to cover for players that leave or die, or perhaps just to supplement a player who's having trouble keeping up with their role if they're either undergeared or inexperienced. The flexibility to be able to cover (or supplement) other roles is a useful thing, and it's something arcanists are particularly good at.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Job crystals increase your stats, first of all.

Also, they give you access to some of the best gear in the game, which can't be equipped on classes.

And then most jobs give vital abilities that outweigh the benefits of cross classing.

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From what I understand (though I'm not there yet myself), it's generally agreed that by the time you're into your forties or so, you should be on your job pretty much all the time. (Basically, that's true once you've reached the point of getting those vital abilities or gear that BlueMage mentions here.) Whether you should switch immediately at 30 or not depends a bit more on the class. For instance, a GLD should probably switch to PLD ASAP, because the vitality boost is more important as a tank than any cross-class abilities. For an arcanist, you might wait until getting to some of the good scholar or summoner skills before switching.

Also, if you run lower-level content, keep in mind that the level sync feature will block any skills above the level you're synced to. If your main job advantage comes from job skills that you won't have access to anyway, you might consider whether it's worth dropping back to your base class for more cross-class abilities.

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Originally Posted by Strawberrycocoa

Playing an Arcanist right now, and I am working on a DoT-based "wither and die" character by using cross-class abilities from Conjurer and Thaumaturge (Aero and Thunder). I dunno how well this design works with the Arcanist upgrades Summoner and Scholar though. Possibly Scholar with use of Cleric Stance to swap my Mind for my Intellect plus the 10% potency boost might work though but I wonder how much people would want a DoT damage based Scholar in groups. XD

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You'd probably enjoy Summoner over Scholar then, it's the same general idea of focusing on DoT's to do damage, but with added abilities such as Fester to add burst damage into it as well (Fester does large damage based on if you have Bio, Bio II, and Miasma on the target). Also, your garuda-egi gets a move that increases the duration of all DoT's on an enemy.

One of the things that bugs me about that is that there should be a certain set of pros and cons for playing Monk over Pugilist, but gear shouldn't be a part of the equation.

Let's take PGL/MNK as an example (since I already have that all done). While in Monk, you can take on select cross-class skills from Marauder and Lancer, it gets skills of its own, and it's generally more powerful. On the other hand, a Pugilist can take ANY cross-class skill they want, and even get more cross-class slots, but suffer from the lack of stats and Monk-exclusive abilities.

Now, this is just a random toying-around with ideas, but... if the gear could be made usable by both Pugilists and Monks no matter what and then someone decides to, say... take the small hit in base stats to maximize versatility and even completely alter their own gameplay mechanics through that, I think that should be an option. I think it'd be pretty great, playing a Pugilist that uses select Marauder, Lancer, and Archer abilities to maximize damage output in a totally different way. It's nice and creative! Not as focused as Monk is (which would explain the drop in stats and the lack of Monk exclusives), but the build shouldn't suffer from being forced to use weaker gear. I mean, I'd still stay a Monk myself because I like playing a traditional Monk. But just once, I'd love to have an excuse to downgrade back to Pugilist and see what fun combos I could come up with, especially once I max out more of my other classes.

Allagan (i90), Darklight (i90), HM primal weapons (i60-i70), the best crafted gear (i70), and WP/AK gear (i55, i60) are all available for classes as well as jobs (e.g., PGL/MNK). I'm guessing Crystal Tower gear (i80), Moggle Mog XII gear, and EM primal gear will be as well. It's only the AF/Relics (i50, i55, i80) and their upgrades (i90) that are job-only.

I knew DL was. But I didn't know that Allagan was also for PGL. I guess that makes sense.