I'm hearing alot of chatter of People Complaining about the changes to WAR and im begining to see a trend. Most of the complaints are coming from PLD's. I'm not sure what all the outrage is about but im here to debunk alot of statements ive seen in threads that are totally ridiculous. Please note, Both my WAR and PLD are 50 with ilvl 90 gear so be at ease, as this isnt another WAR Fanboy/troll thread.
1. Myth Buster 1: WAR will have Superior Mitigation.
I wanted to debunk this myth first because it is the most common statement I see since Yoshi-P announced changes in development. WAR's will not have superior mitigation. In fact, WAR's Mitigation will still fall short of PLD. With each in their respective stance (Shield Oath, Defiance) and nothing else, PLD will have more eHP. The change only slightly put WAR behide PLD eHP.
Also, Alot of people making these statements forget to account that PLD has a Shield. The changes to Inner Beast Only compensates WAR lack of Shield, and thats only if a WAR Spams Inner Beast everytime its up.So the arguement that Inner Beast is Better than Rampart is just...welll...stupid. Lets look at the numbers. PLD has 20% passive mitigation in Shield Oath + 10% Str mitigation from Rage of Halone Combo + 20% Rampart so Essentially, PLD can have +50% mitigation with just Rampart for 20 secs every 90secs (not including damage mitigated by parry and shield) .
2. Myth Buster 2: PLD will be useless post patch 2.1
As I stated above, PLD will still have better mitigation and as We get deeper and deeper into content, that will become important. WAR's will still get hit like a truck without their mitigations moves up, PLD will still scale better because PLD scales with content, WAR scale with Healer. I believe post patch 2.1 The optimal set up will be PLD+WAR+SCH+WHM as it should be.
Lets not forget PLD still has toolkits that WAR's just do not have. AoE mitigation via Flash and Stance, AoE DoT, Stun on Demand, Silences, Pacification, Cover. Alot of these tools can become very useful as SE becomes more and more creative with content. Its not just tank and spank anymore. For example Cover is very useful for Castrum meridianum final boss where mobs are untankable. Tempered Will is Useful for Demon Wall, and Lets not forget the all Mighty Hallowed Ground.
3. Warrior will have Superior DPS and this will make them favored Tanks for Content.
Warriors always had Better DPS, nothing has changed. PLD has better Mitigation, WAR has better dps. It's a Tradeoff. Cant give 1 class eveything. I think that is why they gave PLD Sword Oath and Didnt Give WAR something compareable, because WAR does Great DPS without defiance on and if they did, I think WARs could compete with true dps classes. But just because WAR's DPS is slighty better doesnt mean they will become perfered tanks. It will all depend on the content. And even if people want WAR to be Main Tank, Being Off Tank PLD is Awesome.
There is more for PLD to do as Off tank:
- Cast Stoneskin on Healer, Main Tank, Kiter
- Debuff Boss
- Flash Mobs
- Cast Cover On Main tank/Healer When HP is Low.
- Rotate Stun on Mobs on MT ( Huge Mitigation)
- Silent, Stun on Demand
Conclusion
If People really took the time and see PLD true potential, they wouldnt complain at all. Although I love the upcoming changes to WAR and feel like they are on equal footing as far as survivability goes, i still think WAR has some catching up to do. True Tanks dont complain about which tank class is better. True Tanks level up both classes and bring which ever tank is best for Content.
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11-23-2013, 04:46 AMOmegaSinXYoshi -P and Dev Team are doing a Great Job, WAR will Not Outshine PLD. PLD is Fine
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11-23-2013, 04:48 AMLeiron
DPS for a WAR vs PLD is a difference of about 6%.
So...yeah...DPS is a non issue. -
11-23-2013, 04:52 AMCrimess
Like someone said around the forums. Paladins are crying because they get to share the spotlight now. Hurt right in their egos.
This changes are really needed on WAR and I play both classes to the MAX so I know what you mean. -
11-23-2013, 04:57 AMZDamned
The truly sad thing that is being argues here is the controllable aspect of Inner Beast's 20% damage shield.
Reason why it's so sad is because Paladins already do fine on the content that asks for such a mechanic, while they will still do better in every other scenario. Not all attacks in the game are predictable, and that's where Paladins have more long term consistency than a Warrior will.
And finally, they think they will be no longer brought along to Coil and such, which is total BS, because that reinforces the game's community being FOTM Only. In which case, why do we see Dragoons/Warriors allowed to run anything? -
11-23-2013, 05:15 AMMarxam
The buff is fine L2P. I have both war and pld to 50 with ilvl 70+ gear and I still find reasons for both cases where one will always most likely outshine the other. Plus any team that uses PLD+WAR+WHM+SCH is a team that has proven that good teamwork and communication trumps any in-game restriction.
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11-23-2013, 05:28 AMGarnatian
Please don't White Knight for SE.
The reason this situation even exists is because of their terrible inability to balance Tanks and instead of improving the way self-heals operate (making them a function of damage received), they decided to opt for the lazy way out and increase their mitigation.
Ugh, this entire post is painful to read. -
11-23-2013, 05:28 AMEhayteHell. yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
For instance, T1 Caduceus - I was the better geared tank in a PUG, but the other guy couldn't handle taking aggro on the split, so we let him MT the first portion. I found I had A LOT to offer!
- Spawning slimes: Even though Bards are pretty good at this, PLDs are way freakin' better. Spawn the slime > Stun the slime > Stoneskin myself > Run .8 hexagons away > Wait for slime > Stun it > Stone Skin > Feed it. When two were needed, I could just stoneskin spam and Chain stun the slimes until they were ready, ensuring the bards didn't get hit, and I could mitigate their damage. Also, we had a 3500 hp BRD in there, I stoneskinned him then Popped cover 2s into the spawn - mitigating all of his damage, and letting my bigger stoneskin eat it up as well. SO much you can do to add to your party
- Flashing (obv) if you don't have a reliable blinder
- DPS, Stance Dancing on slimes, RB combo'ing, and keeping stone skin on every single other char in the instance made OTing more challenging than MTing by a lot, and my healers appreciated it.
Obviously at the split I had to tank, d'oh! With our new Warrior Overlords, I am relieved to see that I will have a lot of chances to shine as an off-tank/specialty tank - that's how the two Tank classes have always felt to me anyways, and WAR just needed a buff to set all right in the world. They SHOULD be better at single target tanking, all they have is that, and DPS - we have a TON of other stuff we can do. -
11-23-2013, 05:45 AMZDamnedEvery single post you make is painful to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnatian
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11-23-2013, 05:48 AMwhiskeybravoI'm trying to understand this position. How is changing heal % any more difficult than adding damage mitigation? If anything it seems increasing heal% for IB or SP would have been the much simpler route, but I'm not exactly sure that's what you're referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnatian
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11-23-2013, 05:54 AMGarnatianIt's not increasing the % heal, it's changing how it scales. It's far more complicated than using a flat damage mitigation model.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
The problem with self-healing on a WAR was that it scaled with gear (very poorly) rather than content, however PLD scales with content. So the issue is that self-healing wasn't a function of damage received, which is why is was terrible.