Dark Knight (Marauder -> DPS)

Many ppl like to introduce their thoughts about possible classes. So do I. I do like the thought of enmity as a resource. Thats why the baseclass is a tank but the job a DD.

Basic Skills from Marauder.

lvl 30 Concentration

Ends upon reuse.
Using certain actions while under the effect of Defiance will grant Wrath.
Each unit of Wrath increases critical hit rate by 2%. When five units are stacked, you will become Infuriated.
As long as you are above 25% enmity you deal 1% more damage to that enemy per stack of wrath.
As long as you are above 50% enmity you deal 2% more damage to that enemy per stack of wrath.
As long as you are above 75% enmity you deal 5% more damage to that enemy per stack of wrath.

All Wrath is lost when Concentration ends.


lvl 35 Mindfog

Delivers an attack with a potency of 150 to all enemies in within 3y around you. Reduces enmity of all enemies by 10% per enemy hit by Mindfog.

lvl 40 Facepalm

Executes an attack with potency of 100. 150 when delivered from the front. Silences the target.
Additional Effect: Reduces enmity of all other partymembers by 10%.
You loose two stacks of wrath.

lvl 45 Braintwister

Switches enmity with any allied target. Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.
CD 60 Sec

lvl 50 Sinister Plan

Executes an attack with potency of 300. Resets your enmity. Can only be executed when Infuriated. All Wrath is lost when used.

i find the enmity/dmg thing quite interessting , but i doubt they will use that since we dont have hate transfer job like thf was in XI, and even if they release one you will need always that particular job to be with

well there is provoke... but its more important to keep for emergency case

it would be nice to have Stun spell also, even if some dont like cause it turn you into stunning machine

Soul Eater is a fundamental, like Jump for drg, bliz/fire/thunder for blm, etc...

and Drain, and a restore HP ability

honestly , i rather make them come from a new class with Scythe

all the spells need to come from base class

Does this job require you to have the warrior job or is a redesign of a warrior? My understanding was that wrath was a mechanic unique to the warrior and was not available on the marauder.

I do like the idea of a tanky dps, but i'm not certain about the primary damage mechanic as is.

I don't like this mechanic. It's too risky and will leave the class not desired by anyone. They don't want someone taking hate on accident if they can't play their class right. People already rage at bard who blow everything before the tank has a chance to establish hate. This aside. Dark Knight will not be a job off of Marauder. It will be a job off of Gladiator.

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Originally Posted by Anova

Does this job require you to have the warrior job or is a redesign of a warrior? My understanding was that wrath was a mechanic unique to the warrior and was not available on the marauder.

I do like the idea of a tanky dps, but i'm not certain about the primary damage mechanic as is.

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Just copy pasted some Warrior skills and adjusted them. Ofc they need to be renamed but the mechanic works well for this build.
Right. With marauder as baseclass he would be too tanky. Maybe -2% defence per stack of wrath so he could turn the stance off to emergency-offtank.

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Originally Posted by Chiraisu

I don't like this mechanic. It's too risky and will leave the class not desired by anyone. They don't want someone taking hate on accident if they can't play their class right. People already rage at bard who blow everything before the tank has a chance to establish hate. This aside. Dark Knight will not be a job off of Marauder. It will be a job off of Gladiator.

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Any class can take aggro if not played right. But then again a tank can take aggro if played right.

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Originally Posted by Sinaloa

Any class can take aggro if not played right. But then again a tank can take aggro if played right.

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The only class that can get aggro off of a competent tank that isn't painfully undergeared is a WHM spamming Medica II. Every other class will, at best, manage to get to 25-50% total enmity *if not less*. You're essentially recommending a DPS class that is supposed to sit at 90-95% of tank aggro to deal maximum damage, which, when you consider any kind of pug situation, presents a *lot* of risk since you can't really guarantee that you're not going to massively overgear the tank or that the tank is even especially competent.

Your entire argument for the viability of this idea hinges upon everyone doing everything absolutely perfectly. You're allowing for almost no leeway, which is kind of necessary, especially when you're telling a DPS to ride the tank's ass on enmity while simultaneously not overtaking them. This class would be a pariah in group content because of that because you're, essentially, *encouraging* them to piss off tanks.

On top of that, half of those abilities you'd never want to use. Enmity isn't a resource like MP or TP where you constantly recover a percentage of total value or Wrath where you generate stacks on a regular basis. After the first 20 seconds of the fight, if you used Sinister Plan, you'd be reducing your bonus damage from your stance to nothing for the entire fight, since, at that point, you're talking about having 0 enmity when everyone else has several tens of thousands: you're never going to get above 25% (this is why, when rezzing a tank, that tank *has* to use Provoke; they stand no chance of getting back to the top enmity ever again). The best you could hope for is using Braintwister to get a bit of an enmity boost from another DPS or healer but, for that, you're still restricting Sinister Plan to being used all of 2-5 times for the entire fight (half as much if you're with another of this same class). Facepalm (I'm not even sure how you came up with this name because it makes absolutely no sense to me; facepalming is something you do to yourself as a demonstration of exasperation, not something you do to someone else) would also be horrible because you're actively making the tank's job harder by reducing their enmity as well (not to mention that you'd be screwing with other Dark Knights).

Your design is bad because it doesn't work *on so many levels*. The abilities you've suggested provide no benefit in practical terms and oftentimes actively impede the use or effectiveness of others. If it *were* implemented as such, you can be sure that the job would suddenly become the black sheep of the metagame where no one wants to run with it at all. If you think WARs have it bad, your Dark Knights would have it *so* much worse.

Should be more DPS based, it also needs to address Marauders high enmity generation.

Stance Mechanic:
lv 30 Dark Blade: Reduces Enmity generated by your abilities by 75%. Increases damage dealt by 40%. Replaces your axe with a greatsword. (RIFT uses the weapon replacement with Harbinger.)
lv 35 Creeping Shadows: Delivers an attack with a potency of 120 on up to 5 targets. Additional effect: DoT effect for 35 potency, lasts 30 seconds. Tp cost of 80
lv 40: Crushing Darkness: Delivers an attack of 260 potency to the target applies a 2 second silence. 30 second cooldown. (totally ripping off of Paladin here. Sue me)

No idea what the rest would be.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

lv 30 Dark Blade: Reduces Enmity generated by your abilities by 75%. Increases damage dealt by 40%. Replaces your axe with a greatsword. (RIFT uses the weapon replacement with Harbinger.)

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75% is a bit of overkill. The high enmity mods on the attacks increase the ratio of damage to enmity from 1:1 to 1:2.63. A 75% decrease in enmity generation would cause the class to generate 2/3rds of the enmity per point of damage as other DPS classes. To reach parity, you'd want to reduce enmity by 60%. Of course, the devs have already stated that they could just have the class change from MAR to DRK remove all of the high enmity tags and completely avoid the need for an enmity reduction stance completely. The 40% increase to damage I'm not entirely sure about, especially if you're adding more efficient attacks as part of the job. While it's true that a MAR in DPS gear won't match a real DPS, I'm not entirely sure what the exact comparative discrepancy is; based upon my gut, 40% seems kind of high though. It would probably also serve the class well to tie the damage increase to some other mechanic, like scoring a critical hit applying a stacking DoT that makes up the difference or dealing damage to a target suffering from your Fracture is outright increased, rather than just making it an outright passive increase of that size.

Changing the axe to a greatsword requires a decent bit of work, since it requires the art team to create two models for every axe they make. It's not an *insurmountable* issue (especially since implementing it would be the same amount of work for them as just creating an entirely new class that uses greatswords), but it's still a concern, especially since it doesn't actually impact gameplay.

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lv 35 Creeping Shadows: Delivers an attack with a potency of 120 on up to 5 targets. Additional effect: DoT effect for 35 potency, lasts 30 seconds. Tp cost of 80

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That's an insanely strong AoE. Fracture costs the same TP and is single target but only provides 300 potency over the (same) full duration. This one is AoE and deals *470*. That outclasses every other DoT in the game by a massive margin *and all of the DoTs we're comparing it to are single target*.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

presents a *lot* of risk since you can't really guarantee that you're not going to massively overgear the tank or that the tank is even especially competent.

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I can guarantee that I can hold the aggro if I´m playing that tank and I can guarantee I wouldn´t take the aggro if I´m playing the dd. Both classes got the skillset for it. In most of the regulary played content I could even guarantee to keep those pugs up as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

..- because of that because you're, essentially, *encouraging* them to piss off tanks.

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Sounds like you would but most players try to play well. But even if they do they will have a tough time taking aggro of a good tank since the highdamage skills reduce their aggro while they won´t get high aggro if they don´t use those.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

On top of that, half of those abilities you'd never want to use. Enmity isn't a resource like MP or TP where you constantly recover a percentage of total value or Wrath where you generate stacks on a regular basis. After the first 20 seconds of the fight, if you used Sinister Plan, you'd be reducing your bonus damage from your stance to nothing for the entire fight.

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well if you do spam one skill you wouldn´t - there are four more skills to go

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Originally Posted by Kitru

, since, at that point, you're talking about having 0 enmity when everyone else has several tens of thousands: you're never going to get above 25% (this is why, when rezzing a tank, that tank *has* to use Provoke; they stand no chance of getting back to the top enmity ever again). The best you could hope for is using Braintwister to get a bit of an enmity boost from another DPS or healer but, for that, you're still restricting Sinister Plan to being used all of 2-5 times for the entire fight (half as much if you're with another of this same class).

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Executes are meant to be used quite rarely. Most classes can use them as the mobs are at 25% or benath. He can use it anytime crippling his dps on that mob. For trash it woulb basicly be the same on bosses he would have to use it regulary bringing up his enmity with braintwister being even more usefull by setting that medica-happy-whm´s aggro to zero.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

, . Facepalm (I'm not even sure how you came up with this name because it makes absolutely no sense to me; facepalming is something you do to yourself as a demonstration of exasperation, not something you do to someone else) would also be horrible because you're actively making the tank's job harder by reducing their enmity as well (not to mention that you'd be screwing with other Dark Knights).

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Feel free to create a name of your own. Beside of that asume if you will the scenario of a tank being at 100% - 10000 enmity a dd (maybe another dk) at 80% - 8000 enmity a healer at 5000 - 50% enmity. now reduce those values by ten percent and calculate the results. I bet 08,15$ the result will be that they will end up at 100% 80% and 50%. The lowering may force the tank to use one cd more to bolster his aggro but if he chose being a tank to dps he could have chosen wiser.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Your design is bad because it doesn't work *on so many levels*. The abilities you've suggested provide no benefit in practical terms and oftentimes actively impede the use or effectiveness of others. If it *were* implemented as such, you can be sure that the job would suddenly become the black sheep of the metagame where no one wants to run with it at all. If you think WARs have it bad, your Dark Knights would have it *so* much worse.

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There are plenty of arguments why this build will never be implemented but somhow you managed not hitting one of those, thats why I asumed it is a troll-post in the first place. But it was quite entertaining to read thus worth an answer.