When someone suggests you use flash more

If you didn't ragequit immediately, that'd be great.

*LOSES MIND*

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Originally Posted by Vyserion

If you didn't ragequit immediately, that'd be great.

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Is that before or after the dps pull three packs of mobs cause he "likes to move fast"? /jk btw

I'm leveling conjurer right now and healing dungeons because I love seeing the other side of everything after tanking this whole game. I now see how the complaints over some tanks can get pretty loud. The OP and I are twinsies this morning. I was in Toto-Rak with a gladiator who absolutely refused to hold hate on more than one mob... even if 3 or 4 were around. No one else pulled a single mob. And yet I ended up having to heal myself more than the tank throughout the dungeon because, 30 seconds after his pull, I would heal him once and I'd get swarmed. My requests for the tank to please start using flash often and also to rotate fast/savage throughout the mobs and not just the first one he sees were polite at first, but by the boss, I was screaming at him.

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Originally Posted by Seriat

Is that before or after the dps pull three packs of mobs cause he "likes to move fast"? /jk btw

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MOST DPS pull before tanks lol

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Originally Posted by Jediman

MOST DPS pull before tanks lol

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As a PLD, trust me .. I know ;p

A good PLD uses Flash, Halone combo, and tab targets and Marks his mob (and maybe Scorn for fun).
A good DPS focus target on marks, doesn't attack the mob until tank has threat, doesn't use his heavy hitting skills back to back right after the pull, and only AOE's once the good tank has agro enough on the group.
A good Healer doesn't regen as the tank is pulling or over heal and spam Medica 2.

But you don't always get good players. Ran into a Whm in Amdapor Keep that thought Regen was hot shit and spammed it the entire run, even as the last mob of a group dies he would cast regen on me.... so annoying.

Bad players are a dime a dozen, and most of the time trying to help them is useless because they think they're hot shit.

I wanna throw some math out there.
Now I am unsure of the dynamic scaling of Flash vs RoH with respect to weapon damage, str, etc... but I can say this much. Based on testing conducted at lvl 50, with Shield Oath, on the garlean mobs in the camps NE of Wineport using 2 paladins with nearly identical gear and stats, same relic+1 on both...
With "full" DL, 3 I90 pieces, and a relic+1 sword+shield, it take between 9 and 10 Flashes to outaggro 2 full RoH combos. In other words, I did 2 full RoH combos, and my partner Flashed 9 times, I still had a sliver of aggro. 10th Flash, he has aggro, and I am missing a sliver, so about 9.5-9.6 Flashes = 2 Fast-Savage=RoH combos. (In Shield Oath)
Now if we say that the "hate potency" of the RoH combo is 150+200*3+260*5=2050, then 2 RoH combos is 4100 hate potency, which is roughly equal to 9.6 Flashes, so Flash has a hate potency of ~427.

To put it in perspective, in terms of "hate potency"
Fast Blade (alone or in a combo) = 150
Savage Blade (alone) = 300
Shield Lob = 360
*Flash = 427 (on all nearby mobs)*
RoH (alone) = 500
Savage Blade (in combo) = 600
RoH (in combo) = 1300

So on 2 mobs, you can spend 6 GCDs doing 2 full RoH combos on each mob for 2050 hate potency on both mobs, or Flash 6 times for ~2562 hate potency on both mobs... or 3 mobs, 5, 200... etc.

TDLR: Flash MOAR

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

I'm leveling conjurer right now and healing dungeons because I love seeing the other side of everything after tanking this whole game. I now see how the complaints over some tanks can get pretty loud. The OP and I are twinsies this morning. I was in Toto-Rak with a gladiator who absolutely refused to hold hate on more than one mob... even if 3 or 4 were around. No one else pulled a single mob. And yet I ended up having to heal myself more than the tank throughout the dungeon because, 30 seconds after his pull, I would heal him once and I'd get swarmed. My requests for the tank to please start using flash often and also to rotate fast/savage throughout the mobs and not just the first one he sees were polite at first, but by the boss, I was screaming at him.

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I've seen this same behavior at *50* in DF. There are so many tanks out there who have no idea how to tank that it just gets frustrating. I lay most of the blame at the FATEs being the fastest way to level, mainly because FATEs get nowhere *close* to teaching you how to play your class effectively. Honestly, it's not even like a PLD has to use Flash more than 1-2 times at the start of the fight (and only if they're not 50 and can use CoS as their initial AoE generation before starting to target swap). I really wish that the devs would increase the xp from running dungeons because those actually teach people how to play properly, rather than just running around like chickens with their heads cut off, collecting as much xp as everyone else.

Technically, good DPS instinctually know the assist target without marks. Its a thing.