2.1 Concerns, ilvl requirements for DF and materia

Is materia going to count toward the Duty Finder ilvl requirements coming in 2.1?

If i've got, for instance, an ilvl 55 bracer that's fully overmelded with 5x materia, it should probably count for more than an ilvl 60 bracer with nothing on it. The ilvl 55 bracer will have more stats in this instance and shouldn't be considered lesser gear.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Is materia going to count toward your ilvl the Duty Finder requirements coming in 2.1?

If i've got, for instance, an ilvl 55 bracer that's fully overmelded with 5x materia, it should probably count for more than an ilvl 60 bracer with nothing on it. The ilvl 55 bracer will have more stats in this instance and shouldn't be considered lesser gear.

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materia doesn't affect ilvl. Materia can't go above the stat caps that define what ilvl actually means. e.g. an ilvl 50 can only have X amount of a certain stat. Materia can't go beyond this- the ilvl is determined by the stat caps, not really the number of unique stats.

I don't think you have to worry about this. The ilvl requirement is only likely to be set to what is a bare minimum needed for winning to be realistically possible (if everyone had that ilvl of gear)- that is, to prevent trolling by entering naked or people who really have no business being there (e.g. lv30 gear for endgame).

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

materia doesn't affect ilvl. Materia can't go above the stat caps that define what ilvl actually means. e.g. an ilvl 50 can only have X amount of a certain stat. Materia can't go beyond this- the ilvl is determined by the stat caps, not really the number of unique stats.

I don't think you have to worry about this. The ilvl requirement is only likely to be set to what is a bare minimum needed for winning to be realistically possible (if everyone had that ilvl of gear)- that is, to prevent trolling by entering naked or people who really have no business being there (e.g. lv30 gear for endgame).

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I know it doesn't increase the *actual* ilvl and that's why i'm sort of concerned. Some classes can put multiple stats to very good use. It's a legitimate gearing choice for such classes to utilize crafted gear over dungeon/tome gear since it allows you to get many stats at once instead of a little bit more on fewer stats.

For instance, as WAR, I can make good use of Vit, Str, Acc, Crit and Parry. And to a lesser degree Dex, Skill Speed and Determination are also useful. It should be a legitimate choice to choose two accessories that provide all 5 of my main stats (even at a lower stat cap on individual stats) instead of choosing two accessories that happen to have a higher ilvl, but only provide three stats with a few points extra each.

Hopefully the DF gear requirements won't be so strict that it's going to matter. But, you know, just in case.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't think you have to worry about this. The ilvl requirement is only likely to be set to what is a bare minimum needed for winning to be realistically possible (if everyone had that ilvl of gear)- that is, to prevent trolling by entering naked or people who really have no business being there (e.g. lv30 gear for endgame).

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Actually, I imagine they'll be doing to to halt progression, not as a bare minimum to win (you can beat Titan in swimsuits for crying out loud)... Currently you can skip a lot of gear, case and point; Who has iLv80 gear for Coil? Nobody. When iLv requirements hit I imagine it'll go something like:

Castrum Meridianum/The Praetorium, average iLv45 required.
Wanderer's Palace/Amdapor Keep, average iLv50 required.
Ifrit, average iLv55 required.
Garuda, average iLv60 required.
Titan, average iLv65 required.
Crystal Tower, average iLv70 required.
Binding Coil, average iLv80 required.

As for Materia... Well, the only time Materia is going to be a factor is in making iLvX crafted gear equal to iLvX dungeon/etc. gear. I've not really seen a lot of gear in which a lower iLv piece with Materia is better... Astral Ring is probably the only one I can think of off the top of my head, and that's only because I'm a crit whore... Hopefully they don't work out the average by literally taking the level of all your gear and just dividing it by the total number of slots... For one anyone who isn't PLD (and occasionally BLM/WHM) have an unused slot, and secondly different pieces of gear are much more powerful than others, weapons being the obvious one there...

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I know it doesn't increase the *actual* ilvl and that's why i'm sort of concerned. Some classes can put multiple stats to very good use. It's a legitimate gearing choice for such classes to utilize crafted gear over dungeon/tome gear since it allows you to get many stats at once instead of a little bit more on fewer stats.

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I don't think any reasonably useable materia gear is going to be too low ilvl for use in primals in duty finder. you really have nothing to be concerned about. ilvl49 accessories, and ilvl55 anything else are very useable gear and there's no way they wouldn't let stuff like that pass.

Anything lower than like ilvl45 though, and you can't really add enough stats to make up for the low stat caps.

Basically, I'd probably treat an average of ilvl45 as a minimum.

Remember, its average ilvl, not the ilvl of any 1 piece. You could probably still have a couple lv20 items if you also had ilvl70+ gear.

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Actually, I imagine they'll be doing to to halt progression,

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No, they're not doing it to halt progression, they're doing it to minimize the amount of trolling and people entering with truly not appropriate gear. Just because you "Can" beat titan with crappy gear, doesn't mean random duty finder people should be going in with crappy gear. The lower the gear level, the higher the skill level you're going to need to make up for it. and in the duty finder, you're just not going to have pro players with bad gear.

Also the ilvl restrictions only apply to duty finder content, so Coil won't be subject to it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, they're not doing it to halt progression, they're doing it to minimize the amount of trolling and people entering with truly not appropriate gear. Just because you "Can" beat titan with crappy gear, doesn't mean random duty finder people should be going in with crappy gear. The lower the gear level, the higher the skill level you're going to need to make up for it. and in the duty finder, you're just not going to have pro players with bad gear.

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We're likely arguing semantics, but from the point of view of someone who got to Titan with iLv30 accessories and the sorts, it is there to halt progression. They progressed that far in such gear, now they're forcibly stopped until they upgrade their gear. From the point of view of any "skilled" players, they now have to go out of their way to obtain "correct" iLv gear in order to even attempt something they can beat with their current gear; their progression is halted.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't think any reasonably useable materia gear is going to be too low ilvl for use in primals in duty finder. you really have nothing to be concerned about. ilvl49 accessories, and ilvl55 anything else are very useable gear and there's no way they wouldn't let stuff like that pass.

Anything lower than like ilvl45 though, and you can't really add enough stats to make up for the low stat caps.

Basically, I'd probably treat an average of ilvl45 as a minimum.

Remember, its average ilvl, not the ilvl of any 1 piece. You could probably still have a couple lv20 items if you also had ilvl70+ gear.

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I'm not worried about primals (just +1'd today!). The other thing they're adding is Crystal Tower, which will be ilvl 80 in the DF. It's not unfathomable that they could make the minimum ilvl70 (who knows) for this. In the instance I gave, I would definitely consider the ilvl 55 HQ accessories with a bunch of extra materia melded equivalent to ilvl 70 DL gear. I give up like 3 vit and 1 parry to get a bunch of extra offensive stats that boost my threat, damage, self heals and gets me closer to the next dex plateau.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

We're likely arguing semantics, but from the point of view of someone who got to Titan with iLv30 accessories and the sorts, it is there to halt progression. They progressed that far in such gear, now they're forcibly stopped until they upgrade their gear. From the point of view of any "skilled" players, they now have to go out of their way to obtain "correct" iLv gear in order to even attempt something they can beat with their current gear; their progression is halted.

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My understanding was you had to meet the minimum ilvl to use the random DF, but the requirements would not need to be met with a preformed party. But don't quote me on this, as i'm not positive about it. It would be sad if this wasn't the case.

For now he only mentioned Weapons. Like for example that Crystal Tower will require a relic, nothing (yet) about the rest of the gear. It would be quite bad if Materia would not be counted.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Actually, I imagine they'll be doing to to halt progression, not as a bare minimum to win (you can beat Titan in swimsuits for crying out loud)... Currently you can skip a lot of gear, case and point; Who has iLv80 gear for Coil? Nobody. When iLv requirements hit I imagine it'll go something like:

Castrum Meridianum/The Praetorium, average iLv45 required.
Wanderer's Palace/Amdapor Keep, average iLv50 required.
Ifrit, average iLv55 required.
Garuda, average iLv60 required.
Titan, average iLv65 required.
Crystal Tower, average iLv70 required.
Binding Coil, average iLv80 required.

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Castrum Meridianum/The Praetorium : Yeah that's about right.
Wanderer's Palace/Amdapor Keep : Same as above.
Ifrit Hard Mode : For your weapon 55 is about right, but armor doesn't really need to be above 50, full AF works perfectly fine.
Garuda HM : Absolutely right, at this point you should have at least AK gear. (And hopefully collected a few DL as well.)
Titan HM : 65 would essentially require Garuda weapons as there are no i65 weapons. Titan by no means requires Garuda weapons for a win. Ifrit weapon works fine, and for tanks GC weapon is doable, but armor should absolutely be mostly (if not entirely) DL for him.
Crystal Tower : None of us actually know how difficult CT is yet, nor what gear is practical for a win. i70 is probably a safe bet, but until it's released, for all we know you could do it in AF with a GC weapon.
Binding Coil : Relic, period. If you don't have a relic, don't start doing coil until you do. 80 average is silly, people are able to clear it now with DL (i70) perfectly fine.

(These aren't bare minimums, these are easy wins so long as people know the mechanics. And if you don't know the mechanics, gears means jack sh*t and you'll still wipe, horribly.)

I would like for non-materia'd gear to count to a lesser item level. Doubt that will happen, but I'm pretty sure materia slots are part of the ilvl's budget (which means if you don't slot something the item is worth less.
It wouldn't be a huge deal if they bumped the ilvl of a piece of gear if it's overmelded, by say 5 points. Doubt that will happen either, and I'm not sure how stringent the gear requirements are that it would matter.