Fixing the Markets. As much our problem as SE's .

What is Wrong with the Markets

This is a question that can be answered easily. It's you, you're the reason the markets are in shambles. Every time you click through on trash items and list for the default price, it is you that add to the problem. Every time you list an item lower than the lowest priced full stack, it is you that is a part of the problem. Every time you undercut a single item market, such as any piece of gear that sells on a regular basis by a large amount you hurt yourself.

What can we do to fix the markets? That's really for you to decide. every time you list an item, ask yourself this question. What is this item worth to me? How much time did I put into this? How many resources did I spend on this? If your like me, you value your time. Even if that time I spend is on something of a hobby, that time is still worth something to me. I would not want to spend time on worthless tasks. So why would I list my items at a paltry 2gil a piece. I wouldn't, I don't think so low of myself to list at such a price. Doing work at such a price is selling yourself to the lowest bidder, and is tantamount to being a prostitute.

ways we can fix these whorish prices is to look before we price. What will the NPC's give us for this. You should never price at NPC price. Your just losing Gil doing so. Never, Ever, Ever price below the lowest priced stack. Say the low priced 99 stack of cotton thread is 1gil a piece, you have just 1 spool of thread to sell. You sell it at 98 gil, not 1 gil, not 2 gil, not 3 gil, 98gil. why? Because you can. There is no reason any single item in a stack market should be below 98gil. Stand your ground.


But how do we value crafted items. Best way would be to value each input to get a total to know our production cost and then add 10%. this would be fair value for your work; However, if you buy your mats off the market, you can be losing gil if your not careful. you should figure your lowest possible value from farming your own mats.

Say your craft takes 1 shard and 4 mats. the lowest production cost can be is 5gil. Add 10% to that and you get .5 gil so round up and your lowest possible sell price is 6gil. Any lower and your losing gil and time. the craft is not worth making if you farm everything yourself and the market price is lower. If your craft takes multiple crafted items, you get the lowest price for each mat and total. All this is well and fine but if the market price is higher than this you wouldn't be listing that low but it gives you an idea of how low the price could be undercut before the seller is losing gil. It also let's you know when to buy up grossly undercut item's. Very Good to know in the crystal market.

What can SE do to help the problem? First thing would be no default price. lazy people ruin markets quicker than anything else. I know you have seen it also. check the prices as your listing and everybody is at say 45gil per and two jack offs listed at 3gil per. you know what happened. One thing I would like to see is the Mean, Median and Mode of the sales history and current listings of an item when you are listing an item. I would also like to see items sorted by total price. That right there you'll really see the lowest price first. Blind bidding people are asking for doesn't work and undercutting will still happen and just make the markets even harder to use.

TL;DR: Your part of the problem. read it you lazy bastard. Undercutting isn't that horrible, but don't undercut yourself or you'll become a whore. Don't complain about it, what do you think could help fix the problem?

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Originally Posted by Kogaki

It's called economy. Get. Over. It.

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People selling at default price for a loss is not economy, it's madness. I'm glad you felt the need to reply.
maybe you can join us at the big kids table when you grow up.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

It's not broken. Being undercut is part of any open trading platform.

Your post would have been better if it had a different title like "Don't sell at default price: the profit you are missing out". And you would educate a lot more newbies and many would benefit.

Just because people aren't interested in making money off the market board doesn't make them lazy. Your name calling doesn't help either.

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Did you skip to the TL;DR ? I really don't see where I'm name calling, It's hyperbole. but I like your title suggestion. too bad I can't change that.

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Originally Posted by RedMoko

Have you ever even been to a market? You suggest a 10% production cost and fail to mention the 5% the seller loses....

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And that would still be a 5% profit. That was all for an absolute floor before loss. Your mark-up can be more, I'm setting floor not ceiling..

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

I like how people selling items for less than they cost to make, or less than what they'd go to a vendor for gets childish responses like

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Originally Posted by Kogaki

It's called economy. Get. Over. It.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

No, it's really not. Undercutting items into the ground, to the point where there's 0 profit, and in some cases a loss, is not "economy".

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Thank you sir. Your a gentleman and a scholar. +1 like :)

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Originally Posted by Annah

for me it's simple....I simply will not undercut my wares to the point where I will not make profit.

Now, I haven't had that happened yet because I usually stick to HQ upper level clothing but if it ever got to the point where someone wants to undercut me to the point where they are going to lose money...then let them. It's their loss. If it happens a lot for one item, then I know not to make that item again since it's well stocked to the point of losing money

On the other hand, I'm not going to raise my prices like a douche because mine is the only HQ item. That's a pet peeve of mine...if I see someone selling a woolen robe for 70,000 gil I will go and make three or four HQ woolen robes for 10K a piece. The one thing I cannot stand is price gouging. Yes, it is their right to do it since it's the economy...but I'm gonna go and make the same item and sell it as a reasonable price where I will make a profit and not rip someone off at the same time.

Plus, it will save me the headache of inadvertently selling to a gill buyer because anyone who spends 70K on a woolen robe tells me they don't care about their gil and they probably bought it.

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And i'm ok with that. My problem is not with Undercutting the markets it's with undercutting the work put in. I'm sure your still making gil at that price and i'm ok with that.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Maybe you're trying to make profit off the wrong items, OP.

You know, those items with a huge offer but poor demand. You might want to try something different.

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Nope wrong. I produce nothing, I make my money off everybody just giving me money. I have reset markets many times over.
if people actually did what I said above I would be out of my money maker.

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Originally Posted by mmcsky

Ok all of you fail to understand the OP's point.

No one is arguing your freedom to sell your crap for free, but it is to make you understand than in doing so you are not doing "economy 101" but are only giving money away to the money sink and pretty much wasting your time.
Nowhere in real world economy someone sells high demand items for a 1/100 of what the next competition offers, it is dumb and it only hurts the one selling it.
Another point, this is not a real world economy where everyone is subject to follow a trend on prices, here we have the vendor npcs and the AH marketing, if people throw money away into the AH ( by selling less than or equal to vendor) they are not helping the economy they are destroying it by removing gil out of the economy.
The whole issue is not about you personally doing your "free market" the way you like it but about the terrible approach of the majority that undercut.
Undercut yes, but do it smart and maximize profits.

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I'm so happy somebody gets it. Thank you. I do get a chuckle out of people ill-conceived notion of economy.
Supply and Demand hahah! You know what happens in the real world when supply out weighs demand. Supply
gets taken out of circulation to increase demand.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

EDIT: name calling in the TLDR section on people who skip and read the TLDR. If you are going to do that, then don't write a TLDR second that doesn't serve its purpose.

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Was meant in jest, due to I really hate TL;DR: peoples attention spans are really to damn short. However I understand your point and will try to refrain from it in the future.

It's called economy. Get. Over. It.

It's not broken. Being undercut is part of any open trading platform.

Your post would have been better if it had a different title like "Don't sell at default price: the profit you are missing out". And you would educate a lot more newbies and many would benefit.

Just because people aren't interested in making money off the market board doesn't make them lazy. Your name calling doesn't help either.

EDIT: name calling in the TLDR section on people who skip and read the TLDR. If you are going to do that, then don't write a TLDR second that doesn't serve its purpose.

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Originally Posted by Kogaki

It's called economy. Get. Over. It.

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First reply and we can already close the thread.

Okay, the only place you have a point is when newer players (or less informed) sell things for their 'NPC sale value' as opposed to their market value.

Other than that, everything you list falls into:

Supply vs. Demand and/or in some cases big box stores vs. specialty stores.

People that 'undercut' are doing it because:
1. They want to sell fast
2. The need to clear out inventory space (and therefore are like 'here take my stuff for cheap!')
3. They have the time/supply to keep filling in the market and influence the prices...(IE they are trying to lower the price/corner the market)

Either way, most people who 'undercut' can't single handedly do it long term. It's a stack or two here, an item or two there. It is rare for someone to actually be able to day in and out keep undercutting and controlling the sales of 1 item.

NOW, where people CAN benefit:
Don't sell single/small quantities of items for their 'full stack' price. People will pay a little more (typically) for 1-3 of some items. *
Don't Sell HQ items at or below NQ prices. *
Don't be the 'but I just sell cheap to help the newbie out' guy. It's a noble thought and all...but typically, newbies aren't the ones buying your stuff. If you really want to help a new player, befriend them and trade/craft for them directly.

*Again, some people WILL still sell 1 or a HQ at the low price if they really are just thinking (screw it...I don't need this clogging up inventory space)

Have you ever even been to a market? You suggest a 10% production cost and fail to mention the 5% the seller loses....

I like how people selling items for less than they cost to make, or less than what they'd go to a vendor for gets childish responses like

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kogaki

It's called economy. Get. Over. It.

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No, it's really not. Undercutting items into the ground, to the point where there's 0 profit, and in some cases a loss, is not "economy".

The price undercut will always happen, no matter how many threads are posted.
I only find funny that I can buy cotton boll from NPC for 10 gil and beast sinew for 22 gil, while on market they are listed at 17 & 30 lowest.
I hope they can put them for the default price, or, at least lower than the NPC price...

It's called supply and demand, and in ARR the supply far outweighs the demand.

The economy is "in shambles" because everything is more or less worthless. SE's fault, not ours.