Re-examining "Answers" and the nature of Ascians

The song, Answers, is rather lore-rich, but it has been somewhat difficult to understand what the song means. We came to some conclusions in the past, but with the main scenario behind us ((WARNING:SPOILERS)) we can take a fresh look at it from a new angle.

I'll start with some background information, our known-knowns of context:

• The song was written well before Naoki Yoshida had a hand in FFXIV and, by consequence, was written with the original story plans in mind rather than the fall of Dalamud.
• The original story was essentially put on hold for the Calamity story following Yoshida's appointment. It was acknowledged that that original story would be returned to in the reborn realm, albeit from a modified angle.
• The lore masters had an exceptional level of control in the meaning the song conveys. This is because the intended message/meaning was conveyed first, turned into English Lyrics by Fernehalwes, and only then had music composed for it by Uematsu (this is unusual in SE music development).

The song is written as being from the perspective to two parties, though it is not revealed exactly who or what those two parties are. I originally thought those two parties were the Twelve and mankind (the five races), but I now posit that that are Hydaelyn and the Ascians.

Prologue
I close my eyes, tell us why must we suffer.
Release your hands, for your will drags us under.
My legs grow tired, tell us where must we wander.
How can we carry on if redemption's beyond us.

Verse 1
To all of my children in whom Life flows abundant.
To all of my children in whom Death hath passed his judgement.
The soul years for honour, and the flesh the hereafter.
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walked after.

Shining is the Land's light of justice.
Ever flows the Land's well of purpose.
Walk free, walk free, walk free, believe...
The Land is alive, so believe...

Chorus 1
Suffer [Feel] Promise [Think] Witness [Teach] Reason [Hear] Follow [Feel] Wander [Think] Stumble [Teach] Listen [Speak] Honour [Speak] Value [Tell] Whisper [Tell] Mention [Hope] Ponder [Hope] Warrant [Wish] Cherish [Wish] Welcome [Roam] Witness [Roam] Listen [Roam] Suffer [Roam] Sanction [Sleep] Weather [Sleep] Wander [Sleep] Answer
[Sleep on]

Verse 2
Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated.
Still deaf to our cries, lost in hope we lie defeated.
Our souls have been torn and our bodies forsaken.
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken.

War born of strife, these trials persuade us not.
Feel what? Learn what?
Words without sound, these lies betray our thoughts.
See what? Hear what?
Mired by a plague of doubt, the Land, she mourns.
Judgement binds all we hold to a memory of scorn.
Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?

Chorus 2
Witness [Feel] Suffer [Think] Borrow [Teach] Reason [Hear] Follow [Feel] Stumble [Think] Wander [Teach] Listen [Blink] Whisper [Blink] Shoulder [Blink] Ponder [Blink] Weather [Hear] Answer [Look] Answer [Think] Answer Together

Epilogue
Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow.
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow.
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow.
Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow.
In that same fleeting moment,
Thou must live
Die
And know.


To understand where I'm coming from, we need to understand what it is the Ascians are trying to achieve. Two points of the game are critical in explaining this. The first is our echo of the Battle of Cartenaux where we see Lahabrea speaking with his minion on the mountainside.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...51239105f0.png

Their aim is to return the planet to its "true form" - a prior state. Next up, we can look at what Lahabrea tells us at the end of the Praetorium.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...6efc220bdd.jpg

Lahabrea describes Hydaelyn as a parasite harming the planet that needs to be surgically removed. It implies she is alien to the planet and that the Ascians' existence pre-dates her (with her arrival possibly coinciding to the transition to the first Umbral Era). Putting "bringer of light" in inverted commas implies that you are misguided, as do his final words.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...f49525f99c.png

We are "bound" by the light of Hydaelyn. Imprisoned and Enslaved by Hydaelyn in his eyes.

Back to the song.

If considered from the Ascians' perspective, the prologue tells of their suffering under the confines and will of Hydaelyn. The reference to legs and wandering can be considered figuratively - the course of one's life is often considered a journey of sorts despite not having a destination.

Verse 1 is Hydaelyn singing her song to us, for we are her children and may we walk in the light of the crystal. Again, the figurative form of walking is used. She speaks as a mother who seeks to offer succor without withholding freedom (or at least so we would believe).

The Choruses I think of as the suggestions each party provides. On one side, we see the Ascians tirelessly working, provoking and acting on their plans to deal with the parasite problem. On the other, we see Hydaelyn telling us to Hear, Feel, Think in her defence - something the starshower made us familiar with.

Verse 2 is very insightful. It describes the Ascians' philosophy and argument. They are a shunned but determined race, not dissuaded by the agony they have been forced to suffer or the lies told about them being the root of all evil. Under Hydaelyn's light, they cannot live in their bodies and have been forced to discard them for a metaphysical existence (NIER-style). And meanwhile, the planet continues to suffer from Hydaelyn's invocation of a cycle of extreme polarities, now to the point where the damage of the seventh cycle will be permanent.

I've marked the epilogue as being from Hydaelyn's perspective, but it may in fact be from both. The future is in our hands and we must needs deal with the problems of the world if we are to survive.

My point:

Light and Darkness are not tantamount to good and evil. They are two sides in conflict, but neither is wrong. I am suggesting that this song portrays the Ascians as victims of Hydaelyn's arrival to the planet, seeking to return their world to a state before she existed. And we, the children of the Land, are faced with the dilemma of how this eon-old conflict is to be resolved, especially with the complication of having been selected by Hydaelyn as her champion in this war.

This is, of course, not helped by the fact that Lahabrea is trying to pull a Barthandelus.

Really good summary, Thal. It brings up a point that I've been considering for a while now, myself: I can't help but feel like we aren't getting the entire story concerning Hydaelyn, the Primals, and the previous eras.



While the Ascians clearly enjoy a little moo-ha-ha every now and then, ultimately nobody in this story is driven to do evil for evil's sake; Gaius and many of the other Garleans, for example, are legitimately convinced they are on a righteous mission to bring civilization to Eorzea (and Gaius brings up a lot of good, stinging points about the Twelve which are perhaps better saved for another thread). So what are the Ascians trying to do here? What, exactly, do they want to see happen in the wake of the destruction of the Mothercrystal? One presumes that returning the world to its "previous state" may not be quite so conducive to our continued survival, but on the other hand, we don't actually know that. And they're certainly taking a hostile stance, but they seem to think that negotiation simply isn't on the table.

More suspicious is Hydaelyn's behavior. At first our interactions with Hydaelyn seem like the simplest thing, go gather crystals and be a bearer of light, be a shiny hero et cetera...

... and on second glance, that still holds completely true. In a situation where our antagonists have fairly complicated reasons for doing what they do, Hydaelyn has been awful scarce with details of just why we should be doing this or why anything other than confrontation is an option. In fact, dear old Mothercrystal seems awfully insistent that we confront these foes, and nothing else.

It's easy enough to write this off as "simple plotting", but as anyone with 1.0 experience or who's been paying proper attention to the ARR Garlean stuff, the writers of XIV are never that simple.

There's another facet of this that comes to mind, but I feel like that might almost have to be it's own thread.

Yeah, FF lore is always deep, no matter the game.

Take XIII for example. Barthandelus wants to kill millions of people simultaneously to crack open Etro's gate and summon "the maker", Bhunivelze (sound familiar?). But in XIII-2, you find out that there is a lot more to that maker that Barthandelus neglected to tell you about, with XIII:LR set to crack open even more of that lore.

Something tells me that Hydaelyn is simply seeking to protect herself. And if we like the planet the way it is, we are probably her most willing champions.

Just to be sure on one thing, when he says "The light... It binds them", I think he's just reffering to the bond between you and the scions. Notice that he says that right before getting his ass kicked by the collection of you and the scions
"It binds them" there in particular seems to refer to the bonds between you all, specially given he mentions 'they are too many', not so much binds as shackles but as in bonds.

Or could be wrong, but that particular line is the only thing out of your theory i'd have to disagree with.

(I do have my own particular theory that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are both entieties of the same sort, world-entieties, both in a way trying to compete to stay in the same land/body for whatever reason, i'm still convinced that the dark crystal we saw at the end was Zodiark. Your reading of the Answers theme fits into that too, neither is more alien than the other, though perhaps one is 'newer' to the playing field)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skies

Just to be sure on one thing, when he says "The light... It binds them", I think he's just reffering to the bond between you and the scions.

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I hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks for the alternative perspective. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

I hadn't thought of it that way.

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That was my understanding as well, and while I don't fully agree with your analysis of Answers it does provide interesting discussion.
Specifically the lines

Quote:

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Our souls have been torn and our bodies forsaken.
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken.

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being a reference to the physical predicament of the Ascians.

I may spend some time reading the Unending Journey later-- but do the Sylphs still refer to those with the Echo as "Woken Ones"? I often thought of that being rather important when compared with Susan's imperative "Sleep on." Though it does seem pretty clear that Susan's voice is supposed to be Hydaelyn. Before we knew the place was, well, conscious, I had often thought of Susan's voice as Llymlaen or Nymeia controlling the fates of our poor adventurer souls. (I liked Llymlaen due to the prominence of the seagull at the end of Futures Perfect)

Damn, I didn't realize there was a 1000 character limit or some such malarkey... shows how much I've posted on here since ARR. Anyways, I've gotten way off topic now, but at the end of Futures Perfect the Scion assigned to your starting city refers to you as Woken as well and that bird may not actually be a seagull but god bless youtube.

This interpretation of the song and the revelation of the Ascian god leaves me to wonder who exactly Nael van Darnus was thrall to; the obvious answer seems to be Bahamut but he blergho. He speaks of a "land bereft of the crystal's light" and light would imply not-Zodiark. Darnus' desperation would make him liable to Ascian influence though... and the connection of Ascians to voidsent might explain the Lambs of Dalamud's connection to the Void as well-- simply preying on those praying to a now defunct Allag construct.

HOLY CRAP, I'M SORRY I'M BOUNCING OFF TANGENTS.

Something else interesting to note is the Hear vs Listen. In your interpretation it's curious (and I feel lends credence to your interpretation overall) that Hydaelyn wishes us passive.

I'm starting to wonder if Hydaelyn has 'tempered' the Warriors of Light and that they're effectively slaves to her will. I can't quite put a finger on it but by helping her I believe they may be furthering a selfish cause that benefits Hydaelyn more than anyone else, especially since 'good' and 'evil' are largely a matter of perspective.

We've heard a diatribe like this before. From who? Van Darnus, who acted like he was the hero styled the villain and that everyone should look to him because Dalamud was going to purify the earth.

What did we get? The Calamity.

The policies of Hydalaen don't result in the deaths of thousands of people. Her preservation is the preservation of Eorzea.

This post is clearly Ascian propaganda! :O

Just to point out, in this interpretation "sleep" could easily be directed at Zodarik himself.

Do the garleans really know they are / were receiveing help from teh Ascians? And if so, would they even be aware of Ascian support of Zodiark?

I love that Garleans are all about felling all these "gods" and primals for good.

Long term, I wold love a chance to fight the 12 (sicne they are just primals).

As to us being tempered by Hyd--we are explicitly told by garuda that we have been tempered by her. The assumption is that her tempering is "more benificient."