Highly Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Remove set spawn windows and it solves the issue with having to camp it. just make it random no more 23-24 with 30min windows. Make it where it is not campable remove the small spawn areas. Those 2 things seem to be most peoples complaints so just remove those 2 aspects.

As for hard content, that is half the battle. Garuda or even several dozen fights like that will not replace nms in the open world at all. That style of content is really good, but it is not even remotely the same.

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Why can't we just have them all.. I'm not saying make it 21-24 they did that so the HNMs would spawn in different time zones. Have some force spawns, have some stupid 30 minute things so people don't cry and longer spawns for dedicated people.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The "3 kings" as we called them were changed to be force pops instead of timed pops with spawn windows, and the funny part is this actually made the items more rare- proof that you don't have to have spawn windows and long timers to have gear that not everybody can get.

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You know what this is also proof of? The majority of people liked HNM and it wasn't a bad way to disperse rare gear! It's one of those things you either hate it or love it.

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Originally Posted by Kryptic

Why can't we just have them all.. I'm not saying make it 21-24 they did that so the HNMs would spawn in different time zones. Have some force spawns, have some stupid 30 minute things so people don't cry and longer spawns for dedicated people.

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Ok, I basically just deleted this whole post I made which ended up being alittle to angry, so here goes again.

I still feel these discussions are pointless considering the game is basically made but I/we agree, FF11 had plenty of force spawn NM's (see Sky/Sea), just like HNM's, it had everything but I do agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Most of us don't hate HNMs, we just hate the waiting game. I'd LOVE HNMs if it was all about the NM itself and the gear was rare and amazing because the fight was hard. The only reason I didn't like FFXI's HNMs is because you spent most of your time waiting. Yes, if you got creative you could ensure the time wasn't totally wasted, but for the most part, that's what people did: wait. 960 posts later and I still dont understand why people think having to not play the game for 30 minutes, check the game for 30 seconds to see if the NM pops, then go back to not playing the game and repeat that several times is good game design. Yes, I suppose it is one way to ensure that gear is rare, by making it so no sane person would be willing to not play the game they paid good money for for several hours just to for a *chance* to fight an NM that has a *chance* to drop the rare item.

I just don't see any of that as necessary to either have nice gear rewards or a competitive spirit/atomsphere.

I don't understand why the best gear in the game should only be accessible to people who play the game like it's a job and not like it's an actual game. It's absolutely unhealthy when a game requires you to play it as many hours a day as you would work a job. Why can't gear rarity come from challenge rather than waiting forever and ever for a mob to spawn?

Honestly FFXIV already did a decent job of that with the primal fights. Despite their best efforts, some people just couldn't beat garuda, or hard rivenroad. They just aren't good enough and that's okay. It's a lot better than not even having a chance because you don't have the time to waste being idle for hours and hours.

I had a lot of fun battling some of FFXI's hardest HNMs. I just didn't have fun sitting around waiting for certain ones to pop when there were a lot of other things in the game that i could have accomplished. Tiamat was one of the best ones- for a while people didn't really understand the exact pop windows/times and for a while it didn't matter, because Tiamat was a challenge when it was new and it was up all the time because it was a tough fight. Vrtra is another example of that.

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HNM's did NOT require you to sit at "kings" for hours, or ever in fact to get the majority of their gear, or if you count the useful gear, any of it. There was einherjar, which is a point me and many others tried to drill into your thick skull sense before the game went down, for months. FF11 had content designed for everyone, not just for you, I know this is hard to understand that a game might have content based around a different demographic than you, but it happened.

HNM's are not designed for you, its filler content, something to do when there was no ein/dyna/limbus/sky/sea/others, it was a very small bonus chance to get gear that was very rare in ein.

I really am not sure how to handle you trying to decide what is healthy/unhealthy for other people based off of your personal available play time, most responces would likely get me kicked off of the forums. /em disgusted

Garuda/Hard Rivenroad were not difficult just like Ifrit Extreme, people just lack the ability to deal with lag (which came from server structure not the distance from the servers).

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The "3 kings" as we called them were changed to be force pops instead of timed pops with spawn windows, and the funny part is this actually made the items more rare- proof that you don't have to have spawn windows and long timers to have gear that not everybody can get.

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You have got to be kidding me... by the time those NM's were made force spawn wasnt the game lvl 99 and the gear 100% worthless? When i quit at lvl90 i remember the gear already being a joke, so the fact that it "became more rare" supposidly is because it was worthless. The fact that the majority of the population are running around with relics like they are Onion Swords should tell you something about FF11, the game/endgame is a joke and you should really try to avoid using it as a defence.

Now to the rest of the people in this thread- They will never get it, we tried, these fools will never understand that content that takes more than 30min's is still accessible to them, they just refuse to put in the work to do it and that all content cannot be based around a single group of people with virtually no play time and expect it to survive aslong as FF11 did. You need all of it, the casual content (see einherjar) and the hardcore content (see HNM's), both were valid ways to get the exact same gear.

I promise you I hate the direction ive taken this post, it is not the full purpose of this thread but this guy...

To end on track, yes, a very large portion of people from FF11 loved HNM's but people advocating for the same system is basically off the table, as I have explained before without gear swaps to keep gear relevant for 10yrs like in FF11 you cannot have such long respawn windows atleast mixed with low drop rates, it just cannot be done, would your HNMLS still be killing Nidhogg/faf/behe/KB/aspid every day if gear was replaced every 1-2yrs? The sheer size of HNMLS on average made a waiting list for items like E.body/D.ring very long and took years and years to clear out people.

People need to continue coming up with real ideas that sadly do not involve exactly what FF11 had for HNM's to work... personally I think the loss of gear swaps make true HNM's impossible in any real form, but feel free to try and make it work.

I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

There is nothing wrong with this model.. The model becomes bad when people expect to start seeing something every 30min cycle. Or when someone who plays 30mins feel entitled to have the same progression as someone playing 6hrs a day. The all reward no work model is ruining the mmo genre. People need to start having to work towards a goal again. Not jsut being handed the best gear in the game by loging online.

The hard content being a replacement argument does not work. Because there is no such thing as hard content once it is learned. Strategies will get posted and people will all start beating it. Only way content can be hard is if someone actually was controlling the boss. If it is computerized it follows a pattern which can be figured out and a strat can easily be formed.

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Just to note on pop windows you never had to sit through the whole 30 min window. If X mob was set to spawn @ 2:45:00. The only time you had to watch the clock was @ 3:15:00 and so on. So you only had to be at the pc for a total of 10 secs, but of course you would want to be there 3 mins ahead of time.

I just usually got my house work done in between windows or other things. I still think windows should be gone, however I think the pop conditions we had in 1.0 were fine just need a bit of tweaking.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Just to note on pop windows you never had to sit through the whole 30 min window. If X mob was set to spawn @ 2:45:00. The only time you had to watch the clock was @ 3:15:00 and so on. So you only had to be at the pc for a total of 10 secs, but of course you would want to be there 3 mins ahead of time.

I just usually got my house work done in between windows or other things. I still think windows should be gone, however I think the pop conditions we had in 1.0 were fine just need a bit of tweaking.

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The bonus of long windows, as you said, you can get things done around the house/school work/relax, but I found nothing redeeming to 5min respawns, all this created was endless hours of time when you did not want to afk so you could out-claim the other group every 5mins until your entire group/ls had the gear.

Given compared to 30min windows your just shoving prob months of windows into a day with 5min windows so the crazy camping wont last long, but should the goal ever really be to end content as fast as possible?

Give me a longer spawn with a higher drop rate then that 5min crap in 1.0 any day.

I did not see any positives to the 1.0 system. Content ended too fast, content was not fun, the mobs were always up so nothing was special about them. Honestly if that is how they want to implement nms in 2.0 I say just leave them out completly. Was garbage in XI abysea, is garbage in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

The bonus of long windows, as you said, you can get things done around the house/school work/relax...

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I'd rather spend those 30 minutes playing the game instead of looking for something to do and then having the grand "competition" against other lses that lasted One second.

I think by gathering items required to lure a special monster out is better than waiting for a pop window. For example, a good way to compliment this is with triggered pops, and tiered HNMs found in ffxi magian trials.

To the people arguing for X over Y ... There is no reason to have one over the other, there should be instances and campable HNMs etc

I have a personal preference and I could also join in and explain why I want it 'this way' but the game needs to recognise and cater for both play styles.

Also to those stating 80% want this and 20% want that - those numbers mean nothing as by the time that poll was ran a lot of people who wanted/expected HNMs and certain styles of play had given up on the game and left. How do I know this? I have a lot of family and friends I've met through FFXI and FFXIV and 90% had left prior to this as the content they wanted was not available.

Even if we suppose that these figures did represent the whole potential FFXIV community, 20% is a huge chuck and needs to be catered for.

Again, (before I receive hate replies) I am NOT saying that either style should be solely incorporated but BOTH should be - people need to realise this and get back to the OPs topic.