Gender locked race?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

No, that's in your head again. Outside of the game people would be thinking "Ugh, bunnyboys. What's with that, and why does everyone there look so metro"

Source: I talk with people outside of the game coming from other games, and the lack of cool hypermasculine characters is actually a turnoff. Roegadyn are just... not percieved as cool, due to their old man and green skin aesthetic.

Now we get freaking tiger wrestlers.

---

I mean, speak for yourself, plenty of people who barely know about FF14 in my circles would be hyped about bunnymen. Just because you hang out w dudes whose masculinity is threatened by fictional pretty boys doesn't mean everyone does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NahuNa

I mean, speak for yourself, plenty of people who barely know about FF14 in my circles would be hyped about bunnymen. Just because you hang out w dudes whose masculinity is threatened by fictional pretty boys doesn't mean everyone does.

---

I'm saying you have plenty of prettyboys already. Heck, look at my prettyboy's magnificent fauxhawk.

Male bunnymen simply aren't needed. We need more muscle. Heck, if you want to take a walk down the wild side with a prettyboy, you've already got Miqo'te.

And, unlike bunnymen, we're *getting* more muscle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

Like Keeric earlier said, most likely to appeal two major groups that had been asking for them; female Viera and bestial race.

Development time is finite, so you have to make cuts somewhere. Especially when their dev team is apparently lacking on female devs. I'm sure you people remember how long it took before Gold Saucers bunny outfit was released for male -characters, now imagine having to do whole race out of it.

---

The thing is, though, they already knew people wanted male bunny suits, a LOT. They didn't take long to do it because it was hard work, it was because they just didn't want to! But then they did it and everyone loved it, which is proof everyone would love male vieras too. The fact they actively work against the community's wishes is just baffling!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thefates

A market that can't be ignored when it comes to FFXIV, not anymore at least.

---

See that's the thing, people can cry sexism and gender equality all they want. But when it comes to actually good content, people will play it regardless of their own personal political opinions. Yeah people in the west are unsubbing because of this but it's really the loudest of minorities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

No, that's in your head again. Outside of the game people would be thinking "Ugh, bunnyboys. What's with that, and why does everyone there look so metro"

Source: I talk with people outside of the game coming from other games, and the lack of cool hypermasculine characters is actually a turnoff. Roegadyn are just... not percieved as cool, due to their old man and green skin aesthetic.

Now we get freaking tiger wrestlers.

---

Aye I would agree that there is a lack of Hyper Masculine Characters. Roes do come off more comical then hardcore. You have male Highlanders but they can be abit goofy too and Male Aura are edgy of course and so I am happy too see a new Race that fits that mold for some. And in fact for many Fem roes aren't nearly has hardcore rough and bestial as they would like and so Female Hrothgar would have fit their niche!

Same for Male Viera all the pretty boy races tend to be short little dudes no real Tall handsome twunks. Elezen are awkward rectangles and kind look like old men, Cat bois tend to all have baby faces and derplanders are well derpy. And so Male Viera may have been a good option for those seeking that look!

With more options everyone wins!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bec

backwards and misogynist

---

Can people please stop throwing such terms around? If you honestly believe it to be some horrific, spiteful act then surely it makes more sense to vote with your wallet and depart the game altogether? By all means, be disappointed in the gender lock - just try to be a bit more constructive about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Can people please stop throwing such terms around? If you honestly believe it to be some horrific, spiteful act then surely it makes more sense to vote with your wallet and depart the game altogether? By all means, be disappointed in the gender lock - just try to be a bit more constructive about it.

---

well, i did tell you people were going to be upset man. XD It is only going to get worse from here on out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

I'm saying you have plenty of prettyboys already. Heck, look at my prettyboy's magnificent fauxhawk.

Male bunnymen simply aren't needed. We need more muscle.

And, unlike bunnymen, we're *getting* more muscle.

---

> saying your boy is pretty

Anyway, if they wanted to give us more muscle they could've also made female Hrogthar. That would've been cool. They could've also made male bunnymen muscular a la elezen wiriness. Or even at LEAST given the female viera a muscle slider like highlander/roe women.

Either way, I don't think muscle furries in leather harnesses is how to attract any sort of straight male audience.

I just hope that the dev team saw this backlash coming and will stay headstrong with their decision.
Or at the very least, create a version for both genders down the line to satisfy everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wilford111

I just hope that the dev team saw this backlash coming and will stay headstrong with their decision.
Or at the very least, create a version for both genders down the line to satisfy everyone.

---

It happened before, no reason it can't going forward. Well, except 'hardware limitations' but that's to be expected.

I do feel bad for the forum moderators however... They really are in the middle of a storm they had no hand in right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NahuNa

The thing is, though, they already knew people wanted male bunny suits, a LOT. They didn't take long to do it because it was hard work, it was because they just didn't want to! But then they did it and everyone loved it, which is proof everyone would love male vieras too. The fact they actively work against the community's wishes is just baffling!

---

Pretty sure I remember them saying that they assigned said outfit work for female worker(s).

So aye, basically boils down that male side of devs there doesn't want to work on male bunny stuff.

I think they were really hoping the "extra customization options" would make people not notice the fact they're ignoring male viera and female ronso. Don't think it is gonna work out well for them. :v

Genderlocks are a thing? Okay. Well. Can't say I'm surprised, but I am going to say that I am disappointed. I'm not into the idea of limiting player customization, and adding extra features to customize (things that we should already have for the older races in the first place) feels like a way of trying to placate those that wanted the opposite genders of each. I'm sad for no bunbois, but I'm very sad that they don't want to entertain the idea of having a beastly female. Not only that, the very comment of purposefully having more customization sounds more like quashing the very idea of even adding the other genders later on.

At least I'll save money from no longer wanting to purchase numerous fantasias. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

P.S. Manes for the Hrothgar shown so far are not fabulous enough!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

Pretty sure I remember them saying that they assigned said outfit work for female worker(s).

So aye, basically boils down that male side of devs there doesn't want to work on male bunny stuff.

---

Yeah, I’m voting with my wallet on this one. Its not my only reason, but I do feel bad for all the people that wanted bun bros. And the fact that Yoshi P went with BUGS BUNNY as the teaser, just to let people down like this just makes it seem all the more like he trolled his own audience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Male bunnymen simply aren't needed. We need more muscle.

---

If we need more muscle then why are male Roegadyn one of the least played races in the game...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

And the fact that Yoshi P went with BUGS BUNNY as the teaser, just to let people down loke this just makes it seem all the more like he trolled his own audience.

---

Good gods, "Here's a Male Bunny! Who's name literally has the word Bunny! Now you're only getting Female Bunnies"

rlly sick of “big buff beastly men” and “dainty cute women” in fantasy, games especially. if you’re going to fall back on the lore excuse because female ronso exist? and the viera race as a whole are shut ins so why are only the males locked. I was so looking forward to fantasia’ing to a viera dude and then this happened :(

I cannot believe the people that are against it.

Genderlocking races should not be a thing in 5.0, as simple as that.
You may eat your popcorn in enjoyment but man, the game doesn't just resolve around you.
The development team should not waltz around this issue, they should've known about the backlash and they know from 2.0 that the male option for Miqo'te is incredibly popular.

How is making an entire new race, even just one gender, less work than making the other gender that you are already working on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

How is making an entire new race, even just one gender, less work than making the other gender that you are already working on?

---

This is my biggest issue with this whole thing. They made a point in the Paris keynote about how difficult it was to alter the existing headgear to accommodate for Viera ears. Why would they drop all of that and start making a different concept completely out of the left field? I understand that some people wanted a bestial race, but how many of those people wanted specifically a lion-based bestial race? And one that was male-only at that? It makes no sense, especially given how rushed the Hrothgar looked. I understand that developing races is difficult, but I refuse to believe that it would not have just been easier to create male Viera.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by decoratibo

This is my biggest issue with this whole thing. They made a point in the Paris keynote about how difficult it was to alter the existing headgear to accommodate for Viera ears. Why would they drop all of that and start making a different concept completely out of the left field? I understand that some people wanted a bestial race, but how many of those people wanted specifically a lion-based bestial race? And one that was male-only at that? It makes no sense, especially given how rushed the Hrothgar looked. I understand that developing races is difficult, but I refuse to believe that it would not have just been easier to create male Viera.

---

Dev team no like male bunny's, didn't they have the female devs working on the male bunny suit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKimper

Dev team no like male bunny's, didn't they have the female devs working on the male bunny suit?

---

It is a bit... ehhhhh.... That whole debacle was potentially unnecessary, given if just the headgear was unlocked, it probably would have smoothed over quite a bit. Nice for the outfit as a whole to have no locks, but as far as I have seen, people got upset because such an innocuous headpiece had a genderlock on it.

So basically

https://66.media.tumblr.com/16f71ea7...uj7c1p_540.png

It's not only that it's gender locked, but the Hrothgar just look so... goofy. They don't look right at all. As someone who wanted beastmen as much as male Viera, I'm very disappointed in how Hrothgar look.

Probably will just fall back to the one character sub because I have no use for these characters I was saving for Viera. Just to make a point, I'm not even going to fantasia to female Viera temporarily either.

Plenty of people wanted Hrothgar. You can see many people explicitly requesting something along the lines of Ronso within this very thread before the reveal. Let's not be deceptive in our discussion points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKimper

Dev team no like male bunny's, didn't they have the female devs working on the male bunny suit?

---

I always assumed that comment was made in jest, but given this whole debacle I can't help but wonder if it was actually the case lol.

Stolen from Arkeband on Reddit, sums up my feelings exactly:

S-E: "Here's concept art of male Viera, wouldn't this be cool?"

Fans: yes we have always wanted this

S-E: "ta-da! female viera where's the males guess we'll have to find out next time"

Fans: yes we have always wanted this, show us canon male viera

S-E: "sorry we decided not to make them, but here's lions that are also pseudo-Ronso"

Fans: why

S-E: "btw they're gender locked too"

Fans: why

I too am in the boat of disappointment. I wanted Male Viera as well. I wanted another Male Race I could change into for a little while, but looks like that is dead. I just can't change Celi into most of the Male races other than lala.

These Hrothgar are just not what I am looking for in a new race. I have never been a fan of bestial races or buff ones like they are. Them being gender locked and the Viera being female only doesnt sit well with me. I don't like gender locked races in any game. Hopefully it never comes to gender locked jobs. Just let me play what I want. They may grow on me, we shall see, but still won't be able to play one.

For now, Miqo'te for life!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Plenty of people wanted Hrothgar. You can see many people explicitly requesting something along the lines of Ronso within this very thread before the reveal. Let's not be deceptive in our discussion points.

---

Agreed, Hrothgar obviously had a fanbase following the leaks. That being said, the gender lock was still something nobody "wanted" for either race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Plenty of people wanted Hrothgar. You can see many people explicitly requesting something along the lines of Ronso within this very thread before the reveal. Let's not be deceptive in our discussion points.

---

Plenty of people also wanted female Hrothgars. By introducing Hrothgar, they also created themselves another audience they will not be able to satisfy with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thefates

Agreed, Hrothgar obviously had a fanbase following the leaks. That being said, the gender lock was still something nobody "wanted" for either race.

---

Yeah, memes aside, I understand there's people who wanted a more beastly race... but nobody wanted it to be at the expense of other, just as wanted feature. And going by the numbers, the big, muscly races just aren't nearly as popular as the prettier ones. This decision seems to be practically one of personal (dis)taste, and a rather pathetic one at that. That an entire team of devs can't get over themselves to deliver what people ask for (and asked for as far as 1.0) is disappointing and rather insulting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PangTong

I was already pretty much certain that this would be the outcome all the way back during Paris fanfest when they were so clearly avoidant about mentioning male Viera, but I wanted to wait until it was officially confirmed to make my statement about it.

Obviously, this is a massive and frustrating disappointment. I had no personal stake in male Viera, I wasn't interested in playing one. However, I'm not so blind that I cannot recognize when something is an obviously good decision. When you run a business, selling a product, the feedback you receive from customers about that product is a valuable asset. When customers overwhelmingly give you direct, earnest, specific and voluminous feedback about specific changes they want to see, you should be thanking the gods for your luck. An obvious choice, a clear path on which to direct your work, that you know for certain will please your customers, drawing praise and attention to your product and business.

Square Enix did not do that.

In a game that secured its entire existence and success on the concept of correcting past mistakes and humbly listening to your customers, it feels like nothing less than a total betrayal for them to fly in the face of such overwhelming feedback. The customers and community, in this instance, were patently ignored. There's no other way to slice it, the fans were totally ignored. Square knew what the fans wanted, but ignored them. For what reason? Nothing but the whims and caprice of the producer and director? This decision appeases (effectively) no one, and does nothing but attract criticism and bad press to your game. Yet they went ahead and did it anyway.

It is so frustrating that my only route for feedback is this insignificant, impotent little post that will simply be buried and ignored under thousands of posts just like it. What I really want to do is grab Yoshida by the shoulders and shake vigorously while yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?" Can you actually give satisfying reasoning for your business decision, or was it purely a flight of fancy? To not only deny the choice that your users are asking for, but to go with something that has never been introduced, mentioned, or even hinted at, in a style (big beefy dudes) that both historical polls and in-game data suggest is not at all popular or desired?

Based on previous interviews on the topic of Viera, this whole thing reeks of something Yoshida did on his own, against the advice of his co-workers, which only makes it all the more baffling. After building the game this far, carried by the good will of the users and an honest intention to correct the mistakes of the past and deliver something that people want to play, it's nothing short of shocking and depressing to see this team repeat the mistakes of 1.0.

If Yoshida and the dev team have any respect left for their players, they must offer the following: A formal apology for introducing genderlocked races against the will and wishes of the community, and a promise that the missing genders will be introduced and implemented into the game before 6.0. Obviously they will not do this, so I can only hope instead that a large number of people cancel their subscriptions and their Shadowbringers preorders. I hope that Yoshida is made to see the rewards that pride and arrogance earn him.

To addend: This is bigger than just some genderlocked races. It's a decision that shows without a doubt that this dev team does not care, and will not listen. It shatters the good will and confidence of the users they had built up over so many years. Even if it's not something that bothers you personally, your faith in the game should be shaken. Yesterday it was limited jobs, today it's genderlocked races. Tomorrow, who knows? Certainly nothing good.

---

This more or less sums of the feeling of this decision. It's a bad move, and not a small one by any means.

I just hope they fix it in the future, or at least announce it will change with time. Even if it's a "Soon™" kind of deal, just knowing it is something that won't be forever would be nice.

Gender locking these two new races is deplorable. And it's no surprise that the valence of the gender lock exactly patterns onto stereotypes and fantasies of how male and female characters "should" look, not to mention the dividing lines of gender locking seen in the past (male Roegadyn, male Highlander, female Miqo'te).

Some here have expressed the opinion that the game doesn't "need" slim or "pretty" men because they are already catered to by Miqo'te, Midlander and Elezen. But the same could be said about slim, conventionally attractive women, whether they're short (Midlander, Au Ra, Miqo'te) or tall (Elezen, Highlander, Roegadyn). Yet I don't see any perorations on how female Viera aren't "necessary," despite them being literal existing faces with bunny ears and longer legs.

The broader principle is that the imperative of gender availability isn't about whether you or I personally want to play as any particular race/gender combination. Whether something is "needed" is not really a standard for making this type of argument because it's a subjective judgment. Someone could say that 95% of what's in this game isn't "needed" and not be wrong. But the fundamental unfairness of gender locking characters is not subjective, even if I personally wouldn't play as a female Hrothgar or male Viera. Honestly I'd thought that that was so blindingly obvious that it wouldn't need to be propounded.

One of the main reasons I decided to start playing FFXIV was because of its reputation for equal treatment. I brought along my friends and we've been playing together for years now. I've felt annoyed at some things, like the imbalance in glamour options, the pricing of the cash shop and most of the design choices in Eureka, but this gender locking decision is on a completely different level. It's a massive step backward for the game and cannot be justified on any grounds--lore and artistic integrity are utterly inane points in defense. I will not be purchasing the expansion or renewing my subscription to this game unless and until this backward and insulting decision is reversed.

Couldn't agree more

I don't want folks not to have their hrothgar males. I'm super happy for everybody who wanted it. I just think the gender lock is a terrible, terrible step backwards, especially as this falls into all of the trope categories: "sexy, flowery ladies" and "beastly, rough men". Had there been sexy, flower men and beastly, rough women as well, I would have been all for all of it.

The lore that they themselves create is not an excuse. Especially when it's been debunked (male miq keepers, such as myself, are rarer, etc.) time and time again.

"You don't NEED male Viera or female Hrothgar."

Yeah well we don't NEED to play this game, do we? But we still play it.

I mean technically nobody reading this needs to have a computer, or a TV to survive, right? Do you really NEED windows in your house, or a car? Do you need friends? Do you need a smartphone, when you could just have a landline? Do you really need an email address when you can just write a letter on paper and send it by post? Do you need a bed? The floor's right there. Do you need MUSIC to survive? Imagine a world without music.

Just taking the "you don't need it, so don't complain" argument to its logical conclusion. Just because you don't NEED something, doesn't mean you'll be happy without it.

Well. That is a disappointingly giant step backwards for SE. I wasn't expecting them to return to archaic, sexist genderlocks. I really thought they were better than that, after 1.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NahuNa

Stop using japan to justify your own misogyny and move on.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wilford111

In the west, anything can be misogyny. So forgive me if I don't take you seriously.

---

Actually not to get in the middle of this but what you are referring to isn't misogyny, at least not the part I believe you are referring to.

What this is is actually Misandry, which is the term to describe dislike of men. Male Viera would be misandry, female Hrothgar would be Misogyny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Actually not to get in the middle of this but what you are referring to isn't misogyny, at least not the part I believe you are referring to.

What this is is actually Misandry, which is the term to describe dislike of men. Male Viera would be misandry, female Hrothgar would be Misogyny.

---

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Actually, the hatred of male viera IS misogyny, because it's the hatred of feminine features on a man. The man isn't the problem - the problem is this man resembles women too much. Misandry is not real.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentaryuu

I too am in the boat of disappointment. I wanted Male Viera as well. I wanted another Male Race I could change into for a little while, but looks like that is dead. I just can't change Celi into most of the Male races other than lala.

These Hrothgar are just not what I am looking for in a new race. I have never been a fan of bestial races or buff ones like they are. Them being gender locked and the Viera being female only doesnt sit well with me. I don't like gender locked races in any game. Hopefully it never comes to gender locked jobs. Just let me play what I want. They may grow on me, we shall see, but still won't be able to play one.

For now, Miqo'te for life!

---

Agreed. What made them think they needed another overly-masculine race, I have no idea.