Healers need an overhaul

Cleric Stance, Bio II, Bio, Miasma, Miasma II, Ruin, Ruin II, Aero, Shadow Flare, Energy Drain, Bane, Blizzard II (if choosed)
That's 12 actions dedicated to deal damage.

I take HW SCH has an exemple of "DPS rotation" because he had the most buttons.
Wheter some of us might find this fun is not the topic.
I don't think we should get that much spells. Besides, we could easily remove some of them based on their old effect.

- Cleric Stance can go. Damage are based on MND
- Bio and Bio II are merged. Which is okay
- Ruin/Broil stays as the basic nuke
- Ruin II is for mobility purpose
- Miasma II was weak and unused most of the time => became stronger in Stb and can be redesigned.
- Blizzard II was weak and cross classed when dot were applied. Art of War serves that purpose now
- No dot to spread mean no need for Bane. Could easily be replaced with aoe DOT that works for both Single and aoe situation
- Aero was cross classed, no need to redundant action

So what could we realistically have now ?

Main GCD action : Broil and upgrade
Main DoT : Bio and upgrade
Main Aoe Action : Art of War
Main Aoe DoT : Miasma II
oGCD ST Action : Energy Drain (that could work differently nowadays)
oGCD Aoe Action : ShadowFlare
Mobility : Ruin II

That brings us to a total of 7 dps action.

For single target :

- 1 of them being situational and a Broil equivalent for mobility (Ruin II)
- 2 DoT
- 2 oGCD

Which is realistically only 5 DPS spells in the rotation.

Of course that's only example of what it could look like nowadays with the current healer design.
But that would be more entertaining than what we have now.

Other healer could have their own thing of course.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

On the flip side, it is more likely people are going to get annoyed because how braindead easy it has become when failure happens. The easier certain task to do, the more people would expect you to get it done properly because, why not? It's.... easy right?.

I said 'annoyed' because 'yelling' would get you reported :p

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Easy for who? People with years of experiences?

If someone can barely do 5 push-up and they are asked to do 20 they will have a bad time. It doesn't matter if it was 50 before and now it's easier it's still way too much.

Stop expecting people who might have started the game way more recently than you to be as good. Especially when you can't handle them making mistake because 'it was harder back in the day'.

If you guys want a rewarding Job you can apply for a real one.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Easy for who? People with years of experiences?

If someone can barely do 5 push-up and they are asked to do 20 they will have a bad time. It doesn't matter if it was 50 before and now it's easier it's still way too much.

Stop expecting people who might have started the game way more recently than you to be as good. Especially when you can't handle them making mistake because 'it was harder back in the day'.

If you guys want a rewarding Job you can apply for a real one.

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https://c.tenor.com/wIxFiobxxbIAAAAd...ameson-lol.gif

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

snip

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!
play a dps class!

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Again and again, even with healing requirements being raised substantially more than what it is today, healers have no excuse to not have extra optional dps buttons.
Adding dps options will make the healers who actually wanna press their buttons during downtime... press their buttons during downtime.

How would adding two more dots invalidate your playstyle Sylphie? You can still spot heal every 30 seconds in a raid if you want, it doesn't fucking matter.

Don't you dare tell me that "extra dps buttons won't work" when WoW, the game that has much stricter and higher healing required in content with less healing tools and potencies (to the point that healing rotations are actually a real thing in there), have healers have extra dps buttons (that you have the option to press if you want to).

If ya'll DON'T want to touch the buttons, then that's fine. Don't do it. Keep pressing Cure 1 until your fingers bleed.
Leave the people who want to actually reach the skill ceiling... actually have a skill ceiling.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

So what could we realistically have now ?

Main GCD action : Broil and upgrade
Main DoT : Bio and upgrade
Main Aoe Action : Art of War
Main Aoe DoT : Miasma II
oGCD ST Action : Energy Drain (that could work differently nowadays)
oGCD Aoe Action : ShadowFlare
Mobility : Ruin II

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Personally I'd much rather have Miasma and Bane over Miasma II, as there would be the now lost unique interaction of your ST DoTs being able to become AoE rather than a button you don't hit at all outside of AoE situations (as I think Yoshida didn't like Miasma II and Aero III being used in the ST rotation, which is why they were gotten rid of.) That would bump SCH's AoE DPS tools from 1 currently to 4 with Bio, Miasma, AoW and Bane, making it more in line with other healers like SGE or WHM that have their AoE buttons also in their ST rotations.

We wouldn't even really need to get rid of much, just turn Fey Blessing into a second charge of Indom or add the heal to Fey Illumination, axe Repose, and there's two buttons free right there and SCH now feels way better to play in all encounters without raising the skill floor at all. I do agree with you though, what you wrote would be more entertaining and it is frustrating that even something like bringing back 1 more DoT to manage would do wonders and they refuse to do it.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

Personally I'd much rather have Miasma and Bane over Miasma II, as there would be the now lost unique interaction of your ST DoTs being able to become AoE rather than a button you don't hit at all outside of AoE situations (as I think Yoshida didn't like Miasma II and Aero III being used in the ST rotation, which is why they were gotten rid of.) That would bump SCH's AoE DPS tools from 1 currently to 4 with Bio, Miasma, AoW and Bane, making it more in line with other healers like SGE or WHM that have their AoE buttons also in their ST rotations.

We wouldn't even really need to get rid of much, just turn Fey Blessing into a second charge of Indom or add the heal to Fey Illumination, axe Repose, and there's two buttons free right there and SCH now feels way better to play in all encounters without raising the skill floor at all. I do agree with you though, what you wrote would be more entertaining and it is frustrating that even something like bringing back 1 more DoT to manage would do wonders and they refuse to do it.

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Sure.
That's purely an example to show that, we can still have more dps spell for more engaging gameplay without going back to the 10+ actions we used to have.
I don't see the problem with aoe dot being worth in ST however. But you're right about bringing it in line with other healers.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Sure.
That's purely an example to show that, we can still have more dps spell for more engaging gameplay without going back to the 10+ actions we used to have.
I don't see the problem with aoe dot being worth in ST however. But you're right about bringing it in line with other healers.

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I definitely don't either, but that's the only reason why I can think of WHM losing theirs too other than the "debuff limit" thing that people bring up which I think is a pretty lame excuse. If the debuff limit is such a big deal for DPS, then it logically makes sense that healers should be the ones with more DoTs/debuffs as their DPS doesn't matter on the scale that actual DPS jobs do in large scale content. At this point they could add pretty much anything from SCH's old kit and it would be more fun than it is now. Literally just like 1-3 more buttons for downtime would be a blessing. Please SE ;-;

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Again and again, even with healing requirements being raised substantially more than what it is today, healers have no excuse to not have extra optional dps buttons.
Adding dps options will make the healers who actually wanna press their buttons during downtime... press their buttons during downtime.

How would adding two more dots invalidate your playstyle Sylphie? You can still spot heal every 30 seconds in a raid if you want, it doesn't fucking matter.

Don't you dare tell me that "extra dps buttons won't work" when WoW, the game that has much stricter and higher healing required in content with less healing tools and potencies (to the point that healing rotations are actually a real thing in there), have healers have extra dps buttons (that you have the option to press if you want to).

If ya'll DON'T want to touch the buttons, then that's fine. Don't do it. Keep pressing Cure 1 until your fingers bleed.
Leave the people who want to actually reach the skill ceiling... actually have a skill ceiling.

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guessing you missed my entire argument of agreeing that we need more buttons but thinking they should be buffs/debuffs instead of dps...i would very much like more buttons to press, just not be a dps in every single way, shape, and form but name. we have more than enough dps, arguably that themselves seem to have some balance issues.

with healers being able to out-dps the current dps classes, how would not having more dps buttons invalidate your playstyle? numbers not big enough? play a dps class, and be actually good at it, since a good dps shouldn't be pulling lower numbers than a healer.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

guessing you missed my entire argument of agreeing that we need more buttons but thinking they should be buffs/debuffs instead of dps...i would very much like more buttons to press, just not be a dps in every single way, shape, and form but name. we have more than enough dps, arguably that themselves seem to have some balance issues.

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But you said healers should heal! They’re healers, not supports! Buffs and debuffs are still dps related buttons and healers aren’t supposed to do that according to you!

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

guessing you missed my entire argument of agreeing that we need more buttons but thinking they should be buffs/debuffs instead of dps...i would very much like more buttons to press, just not be a dps in every single way, shape, and form but name. we have more than enough dps, arguably that themselves seem to have some balance issues.

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Buffs and debuffs are things you press once every minute or two minutes.
Tanks don't spam reprisal. Scholar doesn't spam Chain Strategem.
Bard doesn't spam Battle Voice.

Sure healers can get extra buffs or debuff buttons, but we all know it's going to be a "press once every minute, two minutes, 3 minute" buttons, like every damn debuff and buff in the game.

What healers need is FILLER.
Something to spam other than Glare, that's flexible enough for the healer to NOT press when there's healing involved, and when there's downtime.

Extra healing isn't gonna work at all either. Like what? Do you think that adding more healing buttons to a game where two GCDs will fill up the entire party's hp from 10% will actually make downtime interesting?
NO. It will give healers even MORE downtime, even WITH more damage going out.

So what's the next best option? Something that can be spammed, and can be seen as more contribution to the team. Hmmm...
Something that can maybe make the encounter go faster? You know, by making the boss' hp go down faster... Hmm... Idk...
Like something that you can just stop when there's healing involved or your mana is low, that it's actually very optional for you to press.

You know, something that you can do besides playing Stream Raiders on a second monitor. Hmmm..

Hmm... I really don't know. It's on the tip of my tongue...

Oh yeah! Optional dps buttons