BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Mansion

They did not design Blue to be a "job" in the first place. They already said Blue won't catch up current max level.

They won't invest time and effort to partially change the Duty finder so that it check if Blue has X amount of skills / that specific skill. It's been years that we have been asking to prevent people from queuing for a dungeon in base class instead of jobs for level 30+ dungeons and that is still not a thing. Because every minor change to the game's core is depicted as a mountain of work from the devs team.

I highly doubt they will go back on this to please anyone. If the rage is even greater, they will most likely just drop it and focus on something else.

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thing is there is an easy way to do it Currently you can't do Halatai HM till you do Halatai normal now change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX' which requires basic blu skills that are needed for df groups it would be completely optional to those that do want to do it and you can ensure they have required skills unlike right now where we can have a gld in the Vault (i may need to vent that in that other thread) something alot of people would want to have been restricted from being allowed to enter sometimes restrictions are good sometimes they are awful Blu has both yet doesn't need them but i am patient if it takes awhile to sort out i don't mind waiting i will have as much fun as i can right now and try it out

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX' which requires basic blu skills that are needed for df groups

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But the skills are created and balanced for solo content. Not in regard to the amount of DPS required for X composition of team or Y dungeon. In the end, we could argue that all skills are designed in regard to "when you will need them in the Masked Carnival" and that's it.
For a regular use of Blue, you would need a re-balancing of every aspect of every spell in regard to every other DPS (if we kindly ignore the healy and tanky spells Blue seems to have), which is a lot of work. That's what they are actually doing for the other new jobs in 5.0, plus the other jobs in regard to these additions. So yeah, a lot of work that they could manage, but they just chose not to.

Now for the "easy" aspect of adding limits (or requirements) to the DF, well I don't know and I believe you don't really know either, based on how the DF works in pure code/programing/whatever computery thing, except if you work on FFXIV. But I think they want to avoid to change what does not need to be changed right now.
Because they seem to be making their own lives harder by keeping an old flawed code that limits most of their content up until this day. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm not an expert in this area.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But the skills are created and balanced for solo content.

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Then why do so many of them require a group to get the skills?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Then why do so many of them require a group to get the skills?

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I agree it's not logic in itself. I can only guess they wanted to make some strict Blue party content, because when testing it they realised it was fun (that's what they said in the Live Letter I think) so they implemented it that way.
Don't get me wrong, I agree. But in the end, you'll be alone in the masked carnival.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

thing is there is an easy way to do it Currently you can't do Halatai HM till you do Halatai normal now change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX'

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Which still wouldn't "fix" the issue of "You didn't chose the spells I wanted you to chose".

When a DPS-optimized BLU will get kicked because he didn't take White Wind that might have saved the day. Or he didn't take Flying Sardine and you expected him to Silence something, or every other situation where people will disagree on how you should "customize" your character.

Or how a BLU simply might not have a specific spell yet because it has a higher requirement, since BLU spells don't have any level, meaning that you could theoretically go into Sastasha with Eruption equipped.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But the skills are created and balanced for solo content. Not in regard to the amount of DPS required for X composition of team or Y dungeon. In the end, we could argue that all skills are designed in regard to "when you will need them in the Masked Carnival" and that's it.
For a regular use of Blue, you would need a re-balancing of every aspect of every spell in regard to every other DPS (if we kindly ignore the healy and tanky spells Blue seems to have), which is a lot of work. That's what they are actually doing for the other new jobs in 5.0, plus the other jobs in regard to these additions. So yeah, a lot of work that they could manage, but they just chose not to.

Now for the "easy" aspect of adding limits (or requirements) to the DF, well I don't know and I believe you don't really know either, based on how the DF works in pure code/programing/whatever computery thing, except if you work on FFXIV. But I think they want to avoid to change what does not need to be changed right now.
Because they seem to be making their own lives harder by keeping an old flawed code that limits most of their content up until this day. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm not an expert in this area.

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I would agree that they would be balanced around solo play more but currently only 6/7 out of 49 abilities would even be close to OP 3 of those have kill yourself mechanics and with 25 belonging to party duties i'd say the 1st interation of blu has been more designed towards party play than solo that may change in future we will see (give like 2 days we will see i would love for it to be OP as it would actually validate the developers reasoning but until we see numbers it is impossible to know).

Yes i have no knowledge on the ffxiv code think very few people can i do have some coding experience however and adding in a couple new if stipulation shouldn't be that hard to do but there might be unique troubles with ffxiv code i am unaware of

an example how it could be coded(This is most basic it can be so i doubt ffxiv would do it this way):

Under Duty Finder section of code:
Is Player a Blue Mage -> YES -> Has Player done XXX -> YES -> Goes through other duty finder restrictions/checks
Has Player done XXX -> NO -> Locks Duty finder out -> Loops back to 1st question
Is Player a Blue Mage -> NO -> Goes through other duty finder restrictions/checks

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Which still wouldn't "fix" the issue of "You didn't chose the spells I wanted you to chose".

When a DPS-optimized BLU will get kicked because he didn't take White Wind that might have saved the day. Or he didn't take Flying Sardine and you expected him to Silence something, or every other situation where people will disagree on how you should "customize" your character.

Or how a BLU simply might not have a specific spell yet because it has a higher requirement, since BLU spells don't have any level, meaning that you could theoretically go into Sastasha with Eruption equipped.

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I personally would look at it like the Logos actions/role actions(when 5 max) some are way more beneficial than others to have but not all are mandatory and some are fight dependent Blu abilities could work similarly and i would not have a go at a hlr who wouldn't take rescue that may have saved everyone so i wouldn't have a go at a blu that didn't have white wind if it wasn't part of the mandatory requirement i will always look at the minimum requirements for said duty and plan accordingly to the players meeting that. i will offer advice if i can give it to said players for anything would i like certain requirements like job stones added absolutely can i come across classes in qarn onwards definitely and i would tell them to go get it they refuse bl once gone be the same with a blu's abilities i would offer where to get the better ones they refuse that's on them and i would work with this basic blu that ik they have.
The big problem i cannot see on how to fix properly would be is it worthwhile to change every blu ability to fit in a party and at the moment no it is not i believe there needs to be a consistant high enough demand after release to be worthwhile for such a change. for the longevity of blu it will need to enter df eventually as i highly doubt in 3 months new blus are going to get many of their pfs filled up for runs of Cutter's Cry/Binding coil etc roulettes do give a bit more presence to older content and blu will definitely benefit from this more

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I personally would look at it like the Logos actions/role actions(when 5 max) some are way more beneficial than others to have but not all are mandatory

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I think Logos setup will be dealt with very diferently come the public dungeon in Hydatos. If you wipe tere, you'll have to do the whole entering process from the very beginning, so I'm sure people will be far more edgy about screwing things because you didn't pick the right actions. Which would probably be what woud happen if BLU were "allowed" in meaningful content.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

i highly doubt in 3 months new blus are going to get many of their pfs filled up for runs of Cutter's Cry/Binding coil etc roulettes do give a bit more presence to older content and blu will definitely benefit from this more

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Just party with a level 70 unsynced and you'll have every skill you need from any level 50 instance.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Just party with a level 70 unsynced and you'll have every skill you need from any level 50 instance.

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True you can do that probably why masked carnivale offers tomestones to allow blus to still get them i want blus to eventually be allowed df interaction i know there is no perfect solution to the problem of getting it i will wait and see if devs will see if it is worthwhile to do so or not i just think allowing blu into df will help bolster up some old content queues for new players

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I would agree that they would be balanced around solo play more but currently only 6/7 out of 49 abilities would even be close to OP 3 of those have kill yourself mechanics and with 25 belonging to party duties i'd say the 1st interation of blu has been more designed towards party play than solo that may change in future we will see (give like 2 days we will see i would love for it to be OP as it would actually validate the developers reasoning but until we see numbers it is impossible to know).

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Not talking about being OP actually, but more about its system that relies on elemental strengths and weaknesses and enemy types. That's something that does not exist outside of niche content (Eureka to some extent, and Masked Carnivale). It can make Blue OP in Aurum Vale by spamming fire spells on plant enemies, but it will make Blue hit like a wet noodle on a non aspected boss, which is 100% of FFXIV endgame content. The same applies on Crowd Content abilities. You can Bind a pack of mob, but you can't silence Hello World by throwing a fish on Final Omega.