Tried reading some of the stuff I missed in this thread, but too long, no time while exploring Ishgard. . . but I wondered what people thought about the Au Ra after having played them. Also, since I'm sure I missed more than a few tidbits of lore here are some questions:
I assumed the Au Ra were of dragon descent in the beginning, but I read some where that they are more of a demonic lineage, is that true? did I misunderstand? how does that differ from voidsent?
Also, does anyone else think that the way female Au Ra walk looks a bit stiff? It's like locked elbows. . . it feels more than a little awkward to watch. . .
Also am sad that the horn type and face type stayed bound after seeing it in the benchmark character creator. I was a bit pleased to see that my characters name, while maybe not ENTIRELY lore friendly, was actually fairly close. . . considering the backstory I created for her when she was a miqo'te, her transformation almost feels like destiny. ^.^
Au Ra physiology and other lore.
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06-21-2015, 07:48 PMKusari-chan
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06-21-2015, 08:06 PMSamcaesarImho, guys are fine and a bit more unique, girls are boring and hella generic. It's a very common trope in fantasy genres with regards to humanoid races >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusari-chan
Currently the exact origin is ambiguous, concept art was a mix between more draconic and more demonic designs. SE said they have more to do with demons over dragons but their logic is a bit flawed on why they did it, so I'm not sure if they're just going to keep it ambiguous or go into further depths of their origin after 3.0 is over. Even then demons and dragons are a vague group in the game, for example the last boss of Ampador Keep is a dragon according to a few things, but same creatures are featured as a demon summoned in some FATES. Demons are a subset of voidsent, voidsent include things from the Cloud of Darkness to imps and puddings.
I guess that weird walk is what SE considers cute/sexy/moe/nadeshiko, cause that's the theme they were going for the girl Au Ra. -
06-22-2015, 02:23 AMCiliaI haven't used many of the emotes so far, but my avatar swings that "bigger than her" sword like a champ and has an unsettling grin while using the drawn weapon idle stance. Since that's +90% of what I've done so far, I'm totally OK with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusari-chan
The arms are kind of stiff (they keep the straight elbows for my customary /bow after dungeon runs as well), but they were designed to be cute / prim and proper Japanese ladies. That kind of annoys me because Xaela women are not supposed to be prim and proper Japanese ladies, but whatever.
Anyway, the whole "dragon vs. demon" thing is kind of foggy. Their overall appearance reminds people of dragons and there's a piece of concept artwork with an Auri woman on it stating "Race_Dragon," but in-game lore disputes this and official word is that they were designed to be aesthetically similar to demons. It's easiest to just say a little of both, or if you want to really be open minded, say they're Au Ra and neither.
While it's certainly true that fantasy races tend to make the men big and tough and the women cute / pretty / dainty, I'm pretty convinced you're actively looking for reasons to be discontent with the designs of Auri women. The women are not "boring and generic," they're just not something you like or agree with, and that's totally fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
I don't really agree with the Xaela women having the body language of prim and proper Japanese ladies either, but it is what it is.
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My only regret is that I did not get an Unidentified Tomestone and save some Sands to get Arondight, but that's another matter... -
06-22-2015, 08:43 AMSamcaesarThe thing is SE wanted to tout the race as something unique and new, but I feel it's not something that occurred. Heck I don't even notice girl Au Ra unless if I'm really looking, heck I end up mistaking Miqo'te with darker or light fur for them. Like.. SE had plenty of chances to make the race (Specifically with regards to the women) feel more unique but kept away from it, heck there's even that statement that they made them similar because that's just what a majority of the player base plays as (The more cute/waifish races like Miqo'te and Midlander). I mean, the horns and scale patches are much more smaller with exception of the ankle/calf patches, they're an inch shorter than the miqo'te as opposed to the Auri men who fill in a gap between Elezen and Roegadyn, on the face the men have chin crests that are lacking on the women, et cetera. A lot of it seems like the Auri girls have been downsized to specifically appeal to the Miqo'te/Midlander demographic with some very minor changes to motivate those who are in the demographic to pop 10$ on a fantasia to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Come now, it must be boring being kept for using most of the emotes because they don't fit the gist of what you were going with for the character, I know as someone who enjoys to roleplay in game it is. Heck, SE even had a chance to put in the option of having a tall Xaela with the Olkund tribe, but "for whatever reason" the girls remain short as heck despite there even being eugenics. I mean.. Isn't it kinda clear that SE was sorta jumping through hoops or just being lazy to keep the girls are short and waifish as they are, falling right into that super unneeded trope that's all too common in fantasy races?
I mean.. I'd get being frustrated with someone so insistent on disliking a race for what seems to be no reason, but SE really fell flat on their faces with regards to making the girls of this race feel not so generic imho. -
06-22-2015, 10:45 AMRodaI totally agree with everything here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Female Au Ra are probably the most disappointing thing for me with Heavensward. :T
I will forever mourn the badass godzilla women that could've been
http://i.imgur.com/3X1HNa9.jpg
Really wish they would've at least done the midlander/highlander thing for raen/xaela. :( -
06-22-2015, 10:48 AMSamcaesarAgreed, or at least make it so the height range for the girls was something massive. Like.. I'd still be a little bitter because all the cutesy emotes, but if I could just make my Xaela 7' I'd be a much happier camper at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roda
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06-22-2015, 04:02 PMCiliaWhile your complaints have some validity, the Au Ra are still original from a certain point of view. All of the 1.0 / 2.0 races are just copies of the XI races (Hume = Hyur, Tarutaru = Lalafell, Elvaan = Elezen, Mithra = Miqo'te, and Galka = Roegadyn) with some variations depending on the clan (as well as playable male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn, the XI counterparts of which either aren't playable or flat-out don't exist). The Au Ra are the first truly new race developed by the new development team, and no matter what they did, they were going to end up incorporating elements of those five races (mundane, cute, elegant, sexy, and stout). The sexual dimorphism might annoy some people, but it's part of their racial identity; no other race displays this, so it is unique in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
I don't think any hoops were jumped through to justify the short Au Ra women. I've explained before how the height and mass is probably a sex-linked trait, and you even agreed that it's plausible. So while the Olkund tribe does try to increase their height through selective breeding, if the height and mass boost at puberty is only expressed in males, it doesn't matter how hard they try to make the entire tribe bigger and taller. The women will always be comparatively short, because it's a sex-linked trait that isn't expressed in females.
No matter how much you might dislike it, any component of their sexual dimorphism can be explained by genetics. My grasp on genetics isn't very thorough, but it's there.
I'm not saying your reasons to be discontent with the female Au Ra are invalid or nonexistent, but I still feel like you're looking for reasons to be unhappy with them. Primarily because you always state that the males' increased size is a critical advantage on the battlefield regardless of everything else, and always point to examples of what you think is wrong with them instead of looking at both sides of the coin (like the Borlaaq, an amazon warrior tribe, and the Dazkar, whose men are essentially househusbands). Your argument always comes back to "power wins fights, so both sexes should be as powerful as possible" without considering the extra resources it takes to upkeep and field the men and their horses compared to the women. Why field one male Xaela warrior when you can field 3 female Xaela archers, for example?
Female Au Ra are what they are. There is little point in not accepting it, for good or ill.
Anyways, balls tired. Schoolwork in the morn', then 5 levels to go until I can wander into the blood-soaked darkness of the Dragonsong War. -
06-22-2015, 04:20 PMElmeron
I just hate how the males look like they are constantly angry about something. Like seriously, be happy already. The females have this odd look about them too... Their just seem like they have very dead eyes. Like their are horribly depressed and have given up on life.
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06-22-2015, 06:22 PMSamcaesarFrom a certain point of view? I suppose. But in the grander scheme of things the gist of the Au Ra isn't too unique. Like.. The models to the girl Au Ra are incredibly similar to the Miqo'te. The men are fairly similar to Elezen, but I notice a whole lot more differences due to the shapely hips, shoulder width, height, outrageous hair options, large scale patches, and the way the chin crests help add mass and shape to the chins and face that I feel they're at least more unique, those things are notably lacking on girl Au Ra. Plus I feel that saying sexual dimorphism is the unique part of the Auri racial identity is downplaying the sexual dimorphism exhibited with the Roegadyn, another race with massive differences between men and women, the only difference is the heights are more closer together, but I feel that's heights kinda negligible by the fact that Roegadyn women bodies are literally half the thickness and width that the guys are. I just feel the Roegadyn at least shake it up a bit with the addition of a unique body shape for the women as well as the fact that the Roegadyn men are so massive, that even with the extreme levels of sexual dimorphism, the girls are still as large as any other race, so you'll see little complaints from me directed towards there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
I still do agree with you in that it's plausible, though I feel sex-linked should be more aptly described testosterone-linked, but I feel that even when given the option to make the women larger through things outside of just sex-linked genetics SE decided to not do it. It's not that the women of the Olkund were still comparatively short to the men of the Olkund, they were just average height in general, I find it completely bizarre that SE makes it so that the women of a humanoid race are so concrete in their height that even through selective breeding they couldn't even get any larger. After all there is more than just sex-linked genetics behind the height of any species. On a side note, I find it weird that the max Auri men can go to are 7'3, while the Olkund would be over 7'5 inches, I wonder why SE didn't make the height slider go higher with regards to that tribe.
It's more the motif of the warrior (Which the Xaela tribes generally give off) and all that the motif entails (Large size, more animal like features, aggressive appearance), like I understand that anyone can be a warrior and have immense success in battle, but it's such a tiring trope whenever the guys have a clear connection to the motif of "warrior" that's lacking on the women of that race entirely. Sure they're mentions of the men being househusbands and the amazon warrior tribe, but do you honestly look at them and get that feeling from their appearance? I know there's the whole "Actions speak louder than words (Or visuals in this scenario)" would say "My Lalafell DRK can wreck dragons and everything with a bad of their wrists! Your points are moot!" But to that I say, when you think "Warrior race" do you think the Miqo'te or the Amalj'aa fit better with that direction in terms of design? As a slightly related example, consider the Disney movie Mulan! The main enemies of the Chinese and Mulan were massive, but funnily enough, they were also the mongols, historically short (And stout) people. Why did Disney change this? Because they know the audience would look at the struggles of Mulan and the Chinese forces as much less severe if the enemy didn't fit the motif of pillaging destroying warrior. Likewise, it's neither unnatural nor unreasonable for one to come to the conclusion that things like the Dazkar or Borlaaq were more so added on haphazardly because they don't fit with the motif of the Au Ra. Why would there be a tribe full of warrior women when Auri women were designed to look as nadeshiko as possible? You could come to the conclusion and say "Well SE wanted to deviate a little from the trope which is good!", but it feels more like they were trying to cover their rears whenever they realized that the look of Auri women doesn't fit in with the motif of the Xaela so they have to make "exceptions" to prove that they weren't just making the race to pander to a certain demographic and keep discussions like these from occurring. It's just a tiredness of the tired reused trope of " Race with Small(er), cute(r) women and big(ger), scary(ier) men". If SE wanted to make sexual dimorphism the motif of the race, it could've been implemented in more unique ways, my personal favorite is the reverse of the stereotypical and making the men waifish while the women are strong and threatening.
Why field any men if they can just be outmatched with women archers? It's because SE (And anyone doing fantasy to be honest and fair) is more concerned with motifs than they are with perfect sense, which is fine, it's a fantasy game where shields (magic or otherwise) protect swordsmen til they get up close and cleave whatever archer in half because archers never carry melee weapons in fantasy. They've even implemented this whole idea of being liberal with regards to fantasy into the lore of the Au Ra with the Olkund purposely trying to make their tribe's members' as large as possible, but SE decided to take the lazy route of going with a "But for whatever reason (Be it genetics or just the unwillingness to make the Auri women tall) women remain at average height". Could they have made their a few exceptions to the whole "Small cute girls, big mean-looking men"? Absolutely, and I'd argue it'd be the best to allow this, because ultimately that's the only way SE could've killed any of this by allowing a few exceptions and allow players to fill in the gaps lore wise. As an example, make it so that the Auri women are generally small, but make it so that the height slider goes up to 7', that way the player can go "Oh well, my Au Ra comes from a tribe where they spent centuries making the women as tough as men through magic herbs and whatnot!", which isn't unheard of as the lore for the Xaela has the whole Tribes forgotten/hidden away allowing for that freedom to occur. Of course the response to the whole "Well it's fantasy so SE can make the girls warriors small and petite and it not matter because it's fantasy too!" but there's a certain skeevy-ness to that sorta logic that I'd hope SE would stray away from, particularly in that it really relies on the same sort of logic and rhetoric to justify sexy armor for women and the whole "Strong Female Characters" trope (Look up Kate Beaton's Strong Female Characters for examples of the issues with this trope presented in a funny way!).
The point with not accepting it is maybe SE will hopefully realize relying on tired reused tropes are annoying at least some fans, and either make additions so we can at least make the individual character seem unique (Say with the Au Ra, give the Xaela more neutral emotes and give them the option to be taller) or make the next race something less samey in terms of fantasy tropes. Also I'm a little bitter because this will probably be the only thing close to a reptilian race (Whether or not they're actually demonic or reptilian is irrelevant because I'm sure SE feels like they hit that "Demibeast race with scales" demographic) we've got and I'm massively disappointed with on the visuals of the girls. Like.. Would the same logic of just accepting it due to the way things go work for anything else in the game? RMT, dungeon mechanics, 1.0 to 2.0, jobs that are too weak or not strong enough, et cetera. SE has proven that they listen to fans in some regards (Heck, actually being able to look at Titan Egi hold aggro in dungeons with full parties makes me so happy), so I could only hope that in 3.1(Or whenever) that they'd add the addition to make it so I could crank up the height or change the horns without changing the face with the Au Ra (Another suggestion that I've seen pretty popular that SE hasn't commented on yet >.> )
Anyways, night Cilia! Enjoy your dark knighting, I've really enjoyed the story so far, and I hope you do too. Gonna head to bed myself, got school and work then busy times saving the realm later! -
06-23-2015, 03:47 AMLeviathonlxThat reminds me of that quote last week where they mentioned how the Au Ra were a beast race more so than a Miqo'te since you could just remove the 'tail and ears and have a human'. It's strange to me since the same exact thing can be said about the Au Ra when it comes to removing the tail and horns since a fancy scale effect does not make a beast race. My idea of a real beast race is something akin to the charr, worgen, and tauren and a fancy scale effect that's mostly covered by armor does not make one. At the very least the Au Ra should have had differing eyes and actual claws (hell the Miqo'te at least get the eye thing with the one clan while the only difference for Au Ra seems to be scale color).Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar