What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

Look, dont overthink it, they made your character culpable in 9 genocides after all with their little time travel trick into Elpis, but you know at least the grass will look lovely this time around.

It's not ableism because the majority will be affected by mental illness in their life. I think it is trying to linguistically remove the shame or negative element from their idealised setting (men >= gods) because its always an external force that does it because it's rare that we see humans being both good and evil based on the goals they set in life and their experiences and yes mental instability due to those experiences can be a factor but dont mix the mental condition with the corrupting force or the original goals set, its an accelerant not a cause.

It's rare to see a case such as Ardyn brought about by his actions, and you see him try to cope to the point he breaks, and the response by his brother is to try and kill him while ridiculing him about the death of his wife. Ardyn was a character in the saviour Archetype who committed blasphemy or original sin and willingly bore the consequences to his kin and gods' disdain.

Ardyn is the hero of the story initially for a reason. He was the only one with a moral solution that didn't involve breading an entire family line through the use of eugenics to produce the prince that was promised so the prophecy could be fulfilled. The answer to that was to deal with the issue in front of you, bear the responsibility for your actions, and even though that might bring you into conflict with those around you, if you hold fast to your convictions, you could never call yourself a monster, even if you look like one in the end.

FF14 = death is sad. Therefore, life is meaningless and should end to stop the sadness which is resolved by 9 genocides, mutilation of a species and a world all so we can kill the Frankenstein's monster. They have taken so much from the Greek myth in this expansion they should have probably taken the Gaia myth too and made the actual planet the enemy as it was angry that the ancients where abusing their creation magics etc i.e the gigantomachy.

Also, does anyone else find it weird how the minute Zodiark dies the laws he governed began to unravel but the minute Hydaelyn dies nothing happens to the shards or the source returning to normal?

I'm firmly in the camp of just wanting the writers to allow me to enjoy a story without trying to force specific takes down my throat. I might strongly disagree with pretty much everything Venat said and did but I'd be a lot happier with Endwalker had I been given the opportunity to have my character call her out and disapprove of her actions.

As I've said in the past, the Ea was the point where I mentally checked out in the story. A group of nearly omnipotent, all-wise aliens claim to have solved every problem they can conceive of on their planet, but become suicidally depressed because they learn that the heat death of the universe is inevitable? They all aggressively sought to end their lives because in, like, a hundred billion years or whatever, the universe will end? Are you kidding me?

And to make it even worse, let me just say two words:

Time. Travel.

We have established that it is possible to travel back in time and (based on the existence of the Crystal Exarch) stay there basically permanently. That is achievable via technology that is available on present-day Etheirys, plus another 200 years after the planet has been reduced back to the stone ages. This proves that there still were/are challenges for the Ea to learn and overcome -- even if they can't stop the end of the universe, they can literally go to another universe ad infinitum.

The Plenty is just as stupid. "We've eliminated all problems, and we couldn't remember why after a bird asked us some questions. Therefore, we all can't wait to die."

This is just....grade school-level bad writing.

I do agree that the jrpg genre is really only a rpg in the department of taking mechanics and numbers not in story telling. They tend to be linear narratives without player input.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

As I've said in the past, the Ea was the point where I mentally checked out in the story. A group of nearly omnipotent, all-wise aliens claim to have solved every problem they can conceive of on their planet, but become suicidally depressed because they learn that the heat death of the universe is inevitable? They all aggressively sought to end their lives because in, like, a hundred billion years or whatever, the universe will end? Are you kidding me?

And to make it even worse, let me just say two words:

Time. Travel.

We have established that it is possible to travel back in time and (based on the existence of the Crystal Exarch) stay there basically permanently. That is achievable via technology that is available on present-day Etheirys, plus another 200 years after the planet has been reduced back to the stone ages. This proves that there still were/are challenges for the Ea to learn and overcome -- even if they can't stop the end of the universe, they can literally go to another universe ad infinitum.

The Plenty is just as stupid. "We've eliminated all problems, and we couldn't remember why after a bird asked us some questions. Therefore, we call can't wait to die."

This is just....grade school-level bad writing.

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Our entire world should be found dead the minute we come back from Ultima Thul because we kill Hydaelyn. The laws which Zodiark governed began to unravel the minute he died, were still talking about shards for some reason after Hydaelyns death.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

As I've said in the past, the Ea was the point where I mentally checked out in the story. A group of nearly omnipotent, all-wise aliens claim to have solved every problem they can conceive of on their planet, but become suicidally depressed because they learn that the heat death of the universe is inevitable? They all aggressively sought to end their lives because in, like, a hundred billion years or whatever, the universe will end? Are you kidding me?

And to make it even worse, let me just say two words:

Time. Travel.

We have established that it is possible to travel back in time and (based on the existence of the Crystal Exarch) stay there basically permanently. That is achievable via technology that is available on present-day Etheirys, plus another 200 years after the planet has been reduced back to the stone ages. This proves that there still were/are challenges for the Ea to learn and overcome -- even if they can't stop the end of the universe, they can literally go to another universe ad infinitum.

The Plenty is just as stupid. "We've eliminated all problems, and we couldn't remember why after a bird asked us some questions. Therefore, we call can't wait to die."

This is just....grade school-level bad writing.

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What’s rich to me is somehow the sundered word is conveniently exempt from all of this stuff. Apparently it’s just going to be perfectly fine and won’t give in to any of these faults.

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Originally Posted by Vryn

My main question is, what does square have against mentally ill characters? It's becoming a trend in FF7. First, you had Seph, who wanted his mommy, for god sake, and then there was Kefka and the FF10 with the father.

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Perhaps they think making these characters mentally unstable adds a layer of complexity or makes them unique in some way. It could just be their method of making a villain not come across as "cookiecutter."

Yeah, but dont you see that's because we have the power of friendship, love and hope. The white witch said it herself that the ancients who had just sacrificed 75% of their population hadn't experienced enough suffering and therefore needed to be trapped in an endless cycle of life and death split across 14 reflections and made to wallow in a diminished state for 12000 yrs because she felt like they didn't deserve to continue their society.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Perhaps they think making these characters mentally unstable adds a layer of complexity or makes them unique in some way. It could just be their method of making a villain not come across as "cookiecutter."

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It doesn't and the only villain that didnt have it so far was Emit the fan favourite,

Playing Devil's Advocate again:

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Originally Posted by Vryn

Our entire world should be found dead the minute we come back from Ultima Thul because we kill Hydaelyn. The laws which Zodiark governed began to unravel the minute he died, were still talking about shards for some reason after Hydaelyns death.

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After Zodiark dies, the Watcher says that it'll take time for the energies he wove together to fall apart again. In fact, everyone is surprised by the fact that Final Days begins starting so quickly after you return from the moon.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

What’s rich to me is somehow the sundered word is conveniently exempt from all of this stuff. Apparently it’s just going to be perfectly fine and won’t give in to any of these faults.

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No, I don't think that's the point. I think the message of the story is that Etheirys is just as susceptible to any of these problems as any other star, and also, that death is inevitable no matter what (as I keep saying, Mono no Aware is one of the most important philosophies in Japanese culture -- everything, humans, the earth, the universe, and even souls, will one day die out).

The "beauty" of Mono no Aware is for everyone to fight as hard as you can to keep whatever gives your life meaning alive for as long as you can, even knowing that one day it'll all be for nothing.

It did take time just not as much as people thought.

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Originally Posted by Vryn

It doesn't and the only villain that didnt have it so far was Emit the fan favourite,

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Not anymore at least. It was maybe original the first few times, but it becomes a cliche when it's constantly the norm.

Looks like I can be glad you guys are not responsible for the story, the suggestions I see here are mostly not to my liking ngl.
I enjoyed the story and look forward for more. And no I'm not just a casual story enjoyer, I'm pretty deep into lore and while the story does have some holes it's not nearly as bad as most takes I've seen here.

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Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

I don’t think the story was bad it just fell into this weird… “bad finale trope”. Take a tv show you had been watching for a few months, and the finale either didn’t live up to the buildup or you already saw it coming. But maybe I’m getting old and bitter. If i was like 14 again I would’ve loved this expansion. To be young and happy to accept any entertainment…lmao

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I understand that the story is not to everyones liking, I mean no story ever will be. This is why it's weird to me that people talk about it like their suggestion would make it better, for them maybe, maybe even for some others. But there would be nay sayers aswell. The perfect story does not exist. I think they did an amazing job with the story, yes there are things I found weird too but thats a me problem because of the way I view things.

I would've preferred no time loop if they weren't going to let us change anything and the ability to tell Venat she sucked, but we have no choice but to deal with the mess she made. Everything else could've stayed the same, although, I still wouldn't rank EW above ShB or HW because of it. I found most of everything relating to Sharlayan boring AF, the moon was practically a nothing zone, Thavnair and Ultima Thule were so-so, which basically leaves Elpis as the shining star of the expansion with an honorable mention for Garlemald. This isn't even getting into the raw deal that Zodiark got or the fact that thematically EW was a huge miss for me, especially the asinine motivations of the antagonist(s).

I mean, of course there's no perfection, as Cookingway so laid out the moral of the expansion to us so very subtly in the Labyrinthos. :^)

I just don't see how that negates any of the criticisms. Also strikes me as odd how this isn't the first person who admitted to having some problems with the story on a personal level but then... compelled themselves to love it. Reminds me of receiving a gift you aren't fond of, but gush about how much you love it and force a smile only to chuck it in the closet... though this is a video game where the writers will probably never ever know your opinion. Unless Yoshida and Ishikawa are reading this now and are having a breakdown.

Anyway, most of the problems are forgiveable enough to me on their own, considering I liked Stormblood's MSQ, it's just the handling of a certain character that totally struck me as wrong on every level and completely destroyed any enjoyment and makes me wonder about the future of the story I was interested in since 3.0. Now I have become a spooky hollow dynamis ghost that posts in official forums of all things.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Unless Yoshida and Ishikawa are reading this now and are having a breakdown.

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They did apparently realize people were getting the "wrong" impression from some characters like Venat and Hermes by the time the first post-EW live letter rolled around, and while it seemed like they were initially trying to "correct" people's opinions, it felt like they veered away into trying to make them seem more ambiguous in later interviews (Despite the story very much not spinning things that way in the case of the former).

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m curious why they make comments about his backstory when he technically already had it and they described it already, although it was in short stories. He was just a bad seed from the beginning and it seemed he was just born to fail. I think at one point the devs even regarded him as the “ultimate evil.” Kind of like michael myers i guess lol. Just born to be a killer

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

He had a backstory. A very cool one that perfectly explains his behavior and motivations, at that.

It was just in side content.

All of it.

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Oh so it's in the side stories... I see. I think I read one of the early ones and while entertaining there wasn't much to be gleaned from it, so I didn't find a time to read the rest as I was always busy with something. Thanks for letting me know it's there :) I'll give it a read when I can.

That said I would have preferred to see at least some of it in-game in place of some of the tedious filler. I'd have killed a loporrit or 2 for it.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Oh so it's in the side stories... I see. I think I read one of the early ones and while entertaining there wasn't much to be gleaned from it, so I didn't find a time to read the rest as I was always busy with something. Thanks for letting me know it's there :) I'll give it a read when I can.

That said I would have preferred to see at least some of it in-game in place of some of the tedious filler. I'd have killed a loporrit or 2 for it.

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I think the one where he's hanging out with Yotsuyu is the only one that's been released on the Lodestone, which...sucks if you're interested in his backstory for sure. His actual story is called "The Hunt Begins" and it can only be found in SE's Chronicles of Light which hasn't been in print in english in a thousand years. No idea why they thought it'd be a good idea to keep any and all information on him locked outside of the story, but there you have it.

Some kind soul on reddit transcribed it so that the rest of us can actually partake, though: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_the_offical/

Well, not too long now till season 2 begins. Let's hope for a decent start, if nothing else at least we get a break from the twins this patch.

I'm not excited for the 6.1 msq at all and I might just skip most of the cutscenes. I'm more interested in the Myths of the Realm raid, so hopefully it will be interesting.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'm not excited for the 6.1 msq at all and I might just skip most of the cutscenes. I'm more interested in the Myths of the Realm raid, so hopefully it will be interesting.

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Same. Only thing I'm looking forward to right now is decorating my new Ishgard apartment. I'll get to the msq at some point but for the first time ever, it is not a priority for me.

Hydaelyn's codex entry...

:rolleyes:

Naturally it does little to alleviate player concerns and downplays Zodiark's role in safeguarding Etheirys. Not at all surprising, I suppose, though it's a shame that it also downplays the tragedy of the Sundering, the fact that she knew of the approach of the Final Days and did nothing to warn her people about the problem and once again seeks to try and justify the genocide of the Ancients with fluffy descriptions. Perhaps it'll unlock later but it's odd to me there's no separate entry for Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Hydaelyn's codex entry...

:rolleyes:

Naturally it does little to alleviate player concerns and downplays Zodiark's role in safeguarding Etheirys. Not at all surprising, I suppose, though it's a shame that it also downplays the tragedy of the Sundering, the fact that she knew of the approach of the Final Days and did nothing to warn her people about the problem and once again seeks to try and justify the genocide of the Ancients with fluffy descriptions. Perhaps it'll unlock later but it's odd to me there's no separate entry for Zodiark.

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It’s baffling to me that we’ve had some people here say they don’t see any bias in the game towards hydaelyn or Venat. Meanwhile the codex entry doesn’t even mention her fellow ancient friends’ sacrifices to create Hydaelyn. No, apparently it was simply her own flesh and soul….

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Hydaelyn's codex entry...

:rolleyes:

Naturally it does little to alleviate player concerns and downplays Zodiark's role in safeguarding Etheirys. Not at all surprising, I suppose, though it's a shame that it also downplays the tragedy of the Sundering, the fact that she knew of the approach of the Final Days and did nothing to warn her people about the problem and once again seeks to try and justify the genocide of the Ancients with fluffy descriptions. Perhaps it'll unlock later but it's odd to me there's no separate entry for Zodiark.

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Just had a "me me me" vibe to it, lacking all the subtlety that was developed during the interviews and Q&A, and even the EW MSQ.

I went to the moon and it didn't add anything about Zodiark, so my guess is it's built to sync with the post 6.0 MSQ, in lieu of a lorebook. It's good that they're using it as a method to replace the need for that, but by the (soon to be dead?) gods, could it be any more of a shameless attempt to make you love "mother".

Will post thoughts on MSQ etc. later.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Will post thoughts on MSQ etc. later.

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I posted my thoughts on the new MSQ's here if anyone is curious:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5893827

Which involves spoilers, of course. So be forewarned. :p

I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are about the role quest after what I read about it.

Glad to see even after all that’s happened the devs can’t stop trying to shame the ascians for things Hydaelyn herself did…

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are about the role quest after what I read about it.

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One fewer opportunity to further ruin anything associated with Garlemald. :p Much like my view with Aglaia (not) relating to the ancients. Hopefully.

I feel like EW is when you see a car drive off a cliff and you're thinking "they could survive" only to see it land top first and explode. It's as if they went out of their way to make sure all these old arcs were decapitated and burned so they don't have to address them anymore, much to the chagrin of Ancient and Garlean fans. I'm also convinced someone at corporate is sleeping with a Hydaelyn body pillow. :P

At least the void stuff seems promising?

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I feel like EW is when you see a car drive off a cliff and you're thinking "they could survive" only to see it land top first and explode. It's as if they went out of their way to make sure all these old arcs were decapitated and burned so they don't have to address them anymore, much to the chagrin of Ancient and Garlean fans. I'm also convinced someone at corporate is sleeping with a Hydaelyn body pillow. :P

At least the void stuff seems promising?

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While on one hand i’m happy that the garlemald thing mentioned is over which means it doesn’t have the risk of yknow, being alphinaud-fied, i am just so tired of the constant…bad ends i guess given to garlemald a plot lines. Why build something up like that all through ShB just to be like oop no lul, yeah that ain’t happening.

As for the Hydaelyn thing yeah that’s annoying, and don’t get me started on Yshtola’s comment about Elidibus lol. “Pawns” yeah, just like Hydaelyn’s pawns in the form of minfilia and random little girls.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I feel like EW is when you see a car drive off a cliff and you're thinking "they could survive" only to see it land top first and explode. It's as if they went out of their way to make sure all these old arcs were decapitated and burned so they don't have to address them anymore, much to the chagrin of Ancient and Garlean fans. I'm also convinced someone at corporate is sleeping with a Hydaelyn body pillow. :P

At least the void stuff seems promising?

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It may be, but I think at this point I'm just going to sit back and wait and see, while playing something else, as at the moment my attitude is one of "oh well at least they didn't touch that, so that won't be ruined for now", and it's all a bit too fan service-y for me. Scions disbanding has ended up being purely nominal and as I thought it would, it's grating on my nerves already. Plus...

...while I was expecting Zenos's avatar to feature in some form, it's unclear if a little more returned with it. Really hope it isn't more Zenos being dragged out again...

The raid had nice flashy fights but there's little in its lore which I find particularly intriguing - all seems vague enough to allow them to fill the blanks in based on reactions.

I'm hoping this doesn't lead to the 13th being restored, but I already see threads potentially leading that way. I'm at least hoping this culminates in another merger for the WoL rather than us saving the 'Ardbert' of the 13th. I'm never not going to be a rejoiner. :P

Her description. Notably missing: the fact that Zodiark restored the star, that he was the one shielding it and required for her plan to even work and was more than just the manifestation of some "ill-fated" (because of her) wish, the fact that she withheld information from her people, the fact that only a sliver of mankind met her "test"... No, it's just all about Her luv 4 Her childrunz...

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm hoping this doesn't lead to the 13th being restored, but I already see threads potentially leading that way. I'm at least hoping this culminates in another merger for the WoL rather than us saving the 'Ardbert' of the 13th. I'm never not going to be a rejoiner. :P

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Same.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Her description. Notably missing: the fact that Zodiark restored the star, that he was the one shielding it and required for her plan to even work and was more than just the manifestation of some "ill-fated" (because of her) wish, the fact that she withheld information from her people, the fact that only a sliver of mankind met her "test"... No, it's just all about Her luv 4 Her childrunz...

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I was writing doomfiction about more YOU MUST LOVE MOTHER stuff being shoved down our throat but this is somehow even worse. And of course, Zodiark wasn't summoned to save the planet, but for those silly boomers to chase the past! Also she did the summoning all by herself! And we just can't have her be morally grey or ambiguous at all, just actually omit facts! Honestly feels like Shadowbringers was some kind of fever dream, or another game entirely.

Thanks, I hate it. My malding from four months ago that turned into a simmer is now a mald again... the gaslighting has been tripled down on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I feel like EW is when you see a car drive off a cliff and you're thinking "they could survive" only to see it land top first and explode. It's as if they went out of their way to make sure all these old arcs were decapitated and burned so they don't have to address them anymore, much to the chagrin of Ancient and Garlean fans. I'm also convinced someone at corporate is sleeping with a Hydaelyn body pillow. :P

At least the void stuff seems promising?

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I feel like it was Yoshida himself, considering the interview stuff where he gushed over getting her model perfect and how he cried at her scenes. Just waiting for him to walk onto stage and confirm that Venat is now in irl France, and compares her to some roses that he brought with him.

e: Also good to see the Scions were just joking about gracefully exiting the stage and they are immediately back to being attached to our hip! I'm sorry for writing doomfiction for lols, it all came true and then some. My prediction, judging by the trajectory of everything else: remaining ascians die offscreen, or they cry about how they were stuck in the past and will now move on and forget the unsundered world while putting on 'I <3 Hydaelyn' shirts and kissing the Wo -- I mean, adventurer-sama's feet.

This patch story was just weird. I didn't expect them to introduce new characters or anything, they warned us as such at the end, but isn't it convenient that we got a lead on the shard travel thing so quickly? And at the end when Vrtra was talking about redistributing wealth to help revive commerce... how did we land on an orphanage? And taxes? What income are they going to tax to build this orphanage? What about the treasure, can't we just spend that on an orphanage? As for the story's direction... I'll hold my tongue on that one because it's not clear. I feel like the void direction is rather going to be for the trial side quests like how Estinien's Garlemald stint was for the weapon trials, but who knows.

In light of the Codex, I have a small wish, ill-fated though it may be: Meteion to return as some buzzing, unkillable gnat, and do the thing she did on some of the Dead Ends, reminding the Scions, Vrtra etc. that Venat elected to spare Emet-Selch, knowing what he and the others might go on to do, especially whenever they discuss anything to do with the Ascians; chose not to tell her people anything because she simply believed they'd never change; left Meteion to run rampant for thousands of years, to the point that a few more stars' of misery may have tipped the balance; and sundered the world even beyond what she claimed was necessary, ending her people in the process, while freeloading off the protection Zodiark provided and demonising him as being some greedy blood god.

I am genuinely interested in the direction the story is going in, particularly with the suggestion that even amongst the ranks of the voidsent there are those who desire to restore their world to its original state.

I don't think it's necessarily pointing towards the 13th being the subject of our next expansion though, and may simply be raising it as a potential story focus for the future given that it's never been mentioned much outside of side content, which is presumably why they did a refresher about its fundamental lore when it's already been explained at length in such.

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Originally Posted by Simple_Barghest

the scions and the Warrior of Light go from resolving the world's woes to apparently deciding to cause some more woes by breaking open a rift to the Void.
I presume at least.
I dunno. I'm still on this quest.
I want to die.

Edit: Okay no somehow Y'shtola pulled back the mad science and we aren't just strutting into the Void without so much as a how-do-ya-do.

Edit 2: Holy fuck why is everybody apparently full bore gung-ho all in on opening a god damn Daemon Vortex.
This is the kind of shit that causes planets to fall.

Edit 3: AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS WHY IS EVERYBODY SO FUCKING CASUAL ABOUT THIS

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"It's okay when we do it (tm)"

Now back to our scheduled programming.

Water, water, froth and foam!♪
Time to play!