Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

Not reading all 930 replies, having missed some in there. Anyway I'm not sure if it's been brought up but most of the thread I have read up to this point had a very black and white way of looking at the weapons. What about instead of absolute freedom or harsh restrictions they just put in weapon proficiencies instead?

I know what you're going to say, "Just because I switched to a Paladin from my Ranger doesn't mean I forgot how to use a bow!" This is true however a Bow wouldn't work well with Paladin skills and you could even say it would be slightly harder to use due to the large amount of armor. Also not everything needs to have a 100% logical set-in-stone explanation seeing as this is a video game.

Weapon proficiencies though I think would be a fantastic compromise. Those who want to use any and all weapons on any job are free to do so however they know that certain combinations won't work well. Those who use the right weapon combination will benefit from performing well on the job. All jobs should though have 2-3 weapons that it is competent with I think.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Not reading all 930 replies, having missed some in there. Anyway I'm not sure if it's been brought up but most of the thread I have read up to this point had a very black and white way of looking at the weapons. What about instead of absolute freedom or harsh restrictions they just put in weapon proficiencies instead?

I know what you're going to say, "Just because I switched to a Paladin from my Ranger doesn't mean I forgot how to use a bow!" This is true however a Bow wouldn't work well with Paladin skills and you could even say it would be slightly harder to use due to the large amount of armor. Also not everything needs to have a 100% logical set-in-stone explanation seeing as this is a video game.

Weapon proficiencies though I think would be a fantastic compromise. Those who want to use any and all weapons on any job are free to do so however they know that certain combinations won't work well. Those who use the right weapon combination will benefit from performing well on the job. All jobs should though have 2-3 weapons that it is competent with I think.

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Technically your Weapon Class rank is your Weapon Proficiency.

I think I understand what you mean and I proposed something that would work for it. along the lines of

Each Skill Has a Class Synergy and a Job Synergy. Each Skill gets points from a chart.

Pick one of these
Class Favorite 2
Cross Class 1

and one of these
Job Core 3
Job Favorite 2
Job Neutral 1
Job Counter -3

For Each skill.

Cure on White Mage/Conjurer
Class Favorite, Job Core = 5 Points 5 x 20% is 100% Proficiency

Cure on Black Mage/Thaumaturge = -2 Points -2 x 20% is -40%, Black Mage Can't equip it.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Noomy Noms!

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( ^.^)ノ HillOooOo Jin !!
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I would imagine that conjurer unlocks black mage and thaumaturge unlocks white mage.

The reasons for this supposition are rooted in the lore:

Conjury is based on manipulation of elements and dealing with elemental spirits.
Thaumaturgy is centered around a religious organization dealing with matters of life and death.

SE has said they will be reevaluating skills and possibly reassigning some from one class to another. Rebalancing spell lists seems to fit in with this idea.

I am really starting to think that we are limiting ourselves to what we are used to then what could be. I am not really wanting a FFXI-2. Not to rain on anyones parade but I love FFXI for what it is, but FFXIV is/was supposed to be something different/unexpected. Not that I am opposed to job classes like BLM, WHM etc I just think that limits us more as a player than what we have now. I am not sure what the right direction is, but I think us fanboys(myself included) are thinking inside the box and being nostalgic instead of outside with the possibilities of what could be with the current system. I think that the mage class are lacking, but that can be easily fixed without specializing in a job.

I would just like SE to remove daggers from GLA entirely but i think they should just add more weapons for each class but this is the question. Are they gonna make more Weapon skills for every class cause currently you learn weapon skills via leveling up and not by skills points(XI). So would equipping a new weapon give you all the skill a archer can use if your an PLD?

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Originally Posted by Allanon

I am really starting to think that we are limiting ourselves to what we are used to then what could be. I am not really wanting a FFXI-2. Not to rain on anyones parade but I love FFXI for what it is, but FFXIV is/was supposed to be something different/unexpected. Not that I am opposed to job classes like BLM, WHM etc I just think that limits us more as a player than what we have now. I am not sure what the right direction is, but I think us fanboys(myself included) are thinking inside the box and being nostalgic instead of outside with the possibilities of what could be with the current system. I think that the mage class are lacking, but that can be easily fixed without specializing in a job.

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too late now, nostalgia and percieved un uniqueness won the day. that said, they can still do something new with the concepts, all a blm should really be is an offensive oriented magic user, that can go in a different direction than ffxi's take.

I think mages are going to get shafted here, someones going to get shoehorned into a crappy role because they didnt release a pure healer class.

would be a lot better if you could be a blm or a whm with either con or thaum, and which you choosed would limit your spell/skill choices.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

I would imagine that conjurer unlocks black mage and thaumaturge unlocks white mage.

The reasons for this supposition are rooted in the lore:

Conjury is based on manipulation of elements and dealing with elemental spirits.
Thaumaturgy is centered around a religious organization dealing with matters of life and death.

SE has said they will be reevaluating skills and possibly reassigning some from one class to another. Rebalancing spell lists seems to fit in with this idea.

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I agree.

IF Jobs are assigned to Classes one-to-one in such a way that one Class can only play as one Job (which I personally highly doubt) AND Jobs lock out cross-class abilities, THEN realignment of the Class abilities and skills will have to be on a very massive scale.

If this is the case, the Development Team would only have the current lore of Eorzea and the minimum expectations of previous Job implementations in other Final Fantasy games to help them.

Since the player community is as familiar with Final Fantasy Jobs and Eorzean lore as the Development Team, we should be able to figure out which abilities are being moved (or removed) from which Armory Classes.

Conjurer is the Class that's likely going to lose the most and gain the least. According to Eorzean lore, their focus is on Elemental power, not Divine (i.e. Astral) power. So they'll likely lose the following.

1. Cure
2. Repose
3. Radiance
4. Protect
5. Shell
6. Cure II
7. Paralyna
8. Poisona
9. Silena
10. Sleep
11. Raise
12. Cure III
13. Protect II
14. Shell II

But they will likely gain the following.

1. Flashfreeze
2. Emulate
3. Flashfreeze II

When it comes to Dark (i.e. Umbral) abilities ... we have a dilemma. Final Fantasy tradition is that Black Mages, and therefore Conjurers (remember 1-to-1) are the master practitioners of Dark Magic, but Eorzean lore has Thaumaturges as the mystical masters of both Dark and Light. Which should take precedent??

This is why 1-to-1, 2-to-1, or 1-to-2 assignment of Jobs to Classes is literally counterproductive.

The rebalancing work created by it surpasses any rebalancing/nerfing that would have happened if Jobs were unrestricted. Plus it causes situations that make no sense in a Final Fantasy game ... like the party's White Mage (Thaumaturge) being better at Dark Magic than the party's Black Mage (Conjurer).

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Originally Posted by Amineri

I suppose it depends upon how strongly SE re-aligns the classes with these same roles. Currently the classes are principally defined by the weapon, not by a party role. It is up to each player to pick different skills from different classes to build their own role. That was the theory. In practice, it didn't hold up so well.

If classes (i.e. weapons) remain not correlated with party roles, then it would be possible to mix-and-match jobs (party roles) with classes (weapons). But, that's a big 'IF', since we don't know what classes will look like.

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Not if they're after balancing the job system. IMO they're clearly defining the roles so they can balance party play around it and in order to do that you need some strict designs which is what the job system should offer. If they allow too much customization then they have done nothing. I guess we'll all see how it works in practice soon enough.

the jobs can greatly limit cutomization and enhance uniqueness without being class specific.

BLM trait, enhanced offensive magic by 15%
BLM skills Xmagic, mana pool, focused spell (increases recast time and dmg)
cross class limits, certain buff skills, and all cures X

just that alone would totally limit and define a role, regardless of weather you were conjurer or thaumaturge

you can do similar things with any job role, and apply it to most classes that would be likely to use it.