Highly Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

to me, those NMs were actually better designed. The only reason I never did Dark Ixion is because the HNM LS i had for years had broken just before it came out. And, for obvious reasons, I chose not to pursue another one and instead joined an LS focused on other endgame events.

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So now the HNM that you actually did have to sit around and stare for 2-3 hours are the ones that are better designed? When you just said your not willing to have to sit around for 2-3 hours....? Yet the window system which actually gives you breaks is the subpar system given your logic?? Ok, can't argue with crazy. To each his/her own.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

You mean like the 100% drop rate White Ravens?

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Exactly, that noone gave a crap about..

Gimme strider boots over white ravens any and every day of the week...

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Originally Posted by Warlock

You mean like the 100% drop rate White Ravens?

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I'd say those are pretty exclusive. No new player from here on will ever have them, and not every current player was able to obtain them either.

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So now the HNM that you actually did have to sit around and stare for 2-3 hours are the ones that are better designed?

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No... because as you said yourself, you had to be active- you had to be looking for them to find them. Not standing in one spot for hours at a time. Also, Dark Ixion couldn't even be claimed by normal means. You had to have a special item to fight him. This makes him a lot different from your typical HNM.

As I've said several times within the span of a few posts. There are lots of ways we can create big scary world spawn monsters and have them drop rare items without it being an AFK-for-29.5-of-30-minutes provoke lottery. People are just clinging to the old systems because that's what they've always known and for some reason i still don't understand, they find being afk for hours thrilling.

I'd honestly like to see more stuff like AV and pandy warden... just not quite as cryptic and somewhat conceivable to beat at the level cap they were introduced at.

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Yet the window system which actually gives you breaks is the subpar system given your logic??

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It's the 30 seconds of suspense between each window that gives you a break from the monotony of absolutely nothing happening, not the other way around. I don't see the 30 minutes between each spawn window as a "break." It's not like I'd been working hard in the 30 seconds of anticipation of the pop or working hard walking to the dragon's aery.

Camping is the problem with HNMs need to remove that and I think it will fix 99% of the compaints about it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'd say those are pretty exclusive. No new player from here on will ever have them, and not every current player was able to obtain them either.

No... because as you said yourself, you had to be active- you had to be looking for them to find them. Not standing in one spot for hours at a time. Also, Dark Ixion couldn't even be claimed by normal means. You had to have a special item to fight him. This makes him a lot different from your typical HNM.

As I've said several times within the span of a few posts. There are lots of ways we can create big scary world spawn monsters and have them drop rare items without it being an AFK-for-29.5-of-30-minutes provoke lottery. People are just clinging to the old systems because that's what they've always known and for some reason i still don't understand, they find being afk for hours thrilling.

I'd honestly like to see more stuff like AV and pandy warden... just not quite as cryptic and somewhat conceivable to beat at the level cap they were introduced at.

It's the 30 seconds of suspense between each window that gives you a break from the monotony of absolutely nothing happening, not the other way around. I don't see the 30 minutes between each spawn window as a "break." It's not like I'd been working hard in the 30 seconds of anticipation of the pop or working hard walking to the dragon's aery.

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See your still missing your own quote. You said 'you should not be locked out of a reward if you can not play the game for 2-3 hours straight.'. Regardless of the fact that your active, it's still 2-3 hours, as are many events in XI, including just some simple leveling. But as you said, since you don't have that kind of time, that kind of content shouldn't be provided. And I would disagree.

I do however agree that the 30-60secs at the window was the suspense for those HNM that were on that system, which is why I explained in detail all the things that we (and others who'd rather not just simply twiddle thumbs)did in between those windows. We're just going in circles and it's late for me.... so... yeah..

I miss HNM's but I hated standing around every day when I logged on at one camp, maayybbee to move to another camp assuming something even popped up that day. Yea sandworm and ixion kept people on the move but too heavily botted. But logging on to stand around while I play something else to pass the time till windows wasn't really fun to me. I had more fun with things like farming and Einherjar

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Except now the current claiming system makes it so first party to get hate or attack gets drop, also right now with the current system bots wont become prevalent until well after 2.0 Lets be honest the XI claim wars were all about the most sophisticated bot. No they need HNM that are not about claiming but are about the skill and challenge of defeating them.

HNM will only work if you can farm X and Y item turn them in for Z item and use Z item to pop NQ and A+B item from NQ drop to pop HQ

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I'm all for force-spawn NMs like the WSNMs and Hakutaku, but if they bring back the Key Item system from Abyssea I'll be peeved.

I want HNMs, though. I consider myself semi-casual. I don't go too nuts over maxing stats, but I do spend a lot of time in-game. My biggest fear from this standpoint is missing out on a bit of lore or a cool cutscene if a challenge was too hard. Thankfully, at least in 1.0, nearly all of the story content was presented in casual-friendly challenges, while the more hardcore content only had at most an intro cutscene.

A prime example is the difference between In for Garuda Wakening and Taming the Tempest: the former (mini-Garuda) is difficult on a level appropriate for its place in the Seventh Umbral Era storyline, just like Sinspawn Genais's difficulty is appropriate for its occurrence in FFX. The latter Garuda (Hard version) provides an extra challenge to anyone wanting to defeat her at her strongest, but has no real bearing on the story's progression. Likewise, Catastrophe from FFX is a much stronger pallet swap of Sinspawn Genais, but is an optional boss unlocked at the Monster Arena.

I guess to paraphrase my point, I would hate to see Eorzea's wondrous and intricate lore closed off to players who don't have the time nor patience for hardcore linkshells, and HNMs (and hard versions of fights) are great ways to provide challenges without putting unnecessary mountains in the way of completing the story.

Edit: I really need to stop writing essay-long posts knowing full well nobody but the mods read them.

I pay for a game, then it is my right as a paying customer to play the game at my time schedule, not some in-game time schedule. You don't have to wait 12 hrs at a laundry-mat just because someone else used the super-wash machine, do you?

There should be no waiting time for any HNM to pop. Give those HNMs a pre-conditon, like Iffy and other primals fights, where you are required to hand in a certain item. Let the players pick when we like to start the fight.

Concerns about everyone walking around with a certain unique item is moot, all SE needs to do is give it a low drop rate, or make the battle harder.

jc

just make ALL NM's like FATE then everyone can help kill it get tokens if you win then you good to go. group claim gameplay is is old now the groups will just have the rest of the LS healing from the out side is pointless might as well make it a big event when the NM pops. if you get a general thing like the tokens you wont have problems getting stuff done because it will always be worth while to help someone.

random drops and drops you dont or doubles of equip you cant sell or trade is a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I'm not a fan of open world NM's because it encourages unfair play, abuse, MPK and botting.

BCNM or pop item bosses I'm good with though.

As I've said in other thread if they have huge open world NM's they should make it public content, similar to what GW2 is doing.

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people will do it anyways. botting is coming back 100%, just look at all the crafting bots in V1.

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See your still missing your own quote. You said 'you should not be locked out of a reward if you can not play the game for 2-3 hours straight.'. Regardless of the fact that your active, it's still 2-3 hours

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Um, you didn't read my quote correctly:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I shouldn't be locked out of a sweet drop if I'm not willing to NOT play the game for 2-3 hours straight.

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I'm totally willing to play the game for 2-3 hours straight. I'm NOT willing to be AFK for 2-3 hours to fight an HNM like you generally were for HNMs like fafnir/adamantoise/behemoth. (please go back and read it if you think I modified it- I only highlighted the word NOT for you, because it makes all the difference)

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But as you said, since you don't have that kind of time, that kind of content shouldn't be provided. And I would disagree.

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I never said that, and I do have that kind of time. I'm NOT stating that HNM content shouldn't be provided. I'm saying that HNM content where the HNM has several hours worth of 30 minute spawn windows instead of just popping when it's due shouldn't be provided. This is not a casual vs hardcore issue. I can play the game all day. I do NOT however want to spend several hours of my play time idle waiting for an NM to pop when I know it's ToD. Windows shouldn't even exist, but if they do they should be short, not half an hour. Anything more than 5 minutes is just needless waiting for no good reason, but arbitrary wait times in general are not fun. Making it so you have to wait forever to play certain content is not the only, nor is it the best, way to make valuable drops rare.

HNMs are fine- shitty, antiquated mechanics are not. If you read my whole posts instead of locking your mind onto that one quote that you misread, you'd understand my position a lot better.

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people will do it anyways. botting is coming back 100%, just look at all the crafting bots in V1.

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Saying that eliminating cheating is a hopeless endeavor is not much of a reason to retain an exploitable and already unpleasant anyway mechanic.